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Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby erolz66 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:53 pm

Maximus wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Lordo wrote:for too long america has controled the world. it is time to stop using the dollar. euro is a better currency.


Better still Bitcoin ;)


would you put all your cash in it?



Well kind of depends how much cash we talking about ;) If I only had £100 cash I might put all of it in bitcoin today. £1 million, probably not all of it today but as it develops in to the future ?

Quipping aside the issue of the power of being the state with the worlds reserve currency and the potential to use/abuse that power for state over state advantage and dominance is a real one imo. The idea of a global reserve currency that does not have or need a centralised controlling authority to be able to function, which is only imaginable since bitcoin, is one that I think has many compelling positive attributes.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby Maximus » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:49 pm

Bitcoin will not become anything more than an anonymous payment system and a vehicle for some people to speculate.

It has no intrinsic value and it is too volatile.

It is what we have today with fiat currency, but without the anonymity and volatility (relatively speaking). Fiat currency is also digital and physical currency.

Some might like the idea that it is decentralized and cant be controlled, but it is just not a practical instrument to control economies because of this.

It is also very expensive to mine the bitcoins which isnt the case with fiat currency. When you need to ease economies, control of the money supply is what you need.

Other than that, I can agree and disagree with what is going on here with sanctions and the banking system.

Nothing in this world is or can be created without two contrasting parts. Positive and negative. Good and bad. Up and down. Left and right. Start and end. Birth and death.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby erolz66 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:17 pm

All imho of course.

Bitcoin really is not anonymous. Every single transaction ever made via bitcoin is publicly view-able by anyone, which is not the case with fiat currencies. Sure the tracking is to 'addresses' and not individuals directly but really that is no different from fiat as I see things, with anonymous off shore and complex company structures - panama papers style.

It has no intrinsic value but then neither does fiat either. For me where there is utility there is value. If it allows you to do things you could not do otherwise and those things have utility to people, then it has value.

Yes it is volatile atm and too volatile to be used today as a global reserve currency but that is not necessarily going to be the case for ever.

I am suggesting it as a global reserve currency, not a replacement currency. Individual states will still have national currencies and be able to manipulate them for national interests. Just one singular state will not control the reserve currency, the one used to trade between states and currencies, as is currently the case and I see much benefit for everyone with that, except of course for the singular state that currently has that privileged, namely the USA.

Currently mining is, by design, energy inefficient but that is not set in stone with bitcoin. It will be interesting to see how ethereum deals with it up coming move from the energy inefficient model of 'proof of work' to the energy efficient model of 'proof of stake'.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby Maximus » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:40 pm

erolz66 wrote:All imho of course.

Bitcoin really is not anonymous. Every single transaction ever made via bitcoin is publicly view-able by anyone, which is not the case with fiat currencies. Sure the tracking is to 'addresses' and not individuals directly but really that is no different from fiat as I see things, with anonymous off shore and complex company structures - panama papers style.

It has no intrinsic value but then neither does fiat either. For me where there is utility there is value. If it allows you to do things you could not do otherwise and those things have utility to people, then it has value.

Yes it is volatile atm and too volatile to be used today as a global reserve currency but that is not necessarily going to be the case for ever.

I am suggesting it as a global reserve currency, not a replacement currency. Individual states will still have national currencies and be able to manipulate them for national interests. Just one singular state will not control the reserve currency, the one used to trade between states and currencies, as is currently the case and I see much benefit for everyone with that, except of course for the singular state that currently has that privileged, namely the USA.

Currently mining is, by design, energy inefficient but that is not set in stone with bitcoin. It will be interesting to see how ethereum deals with it up coming move from the energy inefficient model of 'proof of work' to the energy efficient model of 'proof of stake'.


I am not sure how that would work. Bitoin becoming a global reserve currency.

The USD is only the global reserve currency because it is backed by the relative strength of the US economy and their gold reserves. Which are both the largest. Also, most countries accept it for international trade and many central banks hold it in "reserve". It is popular. This is why the USD is the de facto reserve currency of the world. The worlds second and third reserve currencies are the Euro, then the Yen.

The intrinsic value from fiat currency comes from it being backed by gold and economic output.

How and why would bitcoin become a global reserve currency?
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby erolz66 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:15 pm

Maximus wrote: The intrinsic value from fiat currency comes from it being backed by gold and economic output.


Backed in what way ? I mean it is not like I can send a ship from say France to the US with x million of USD and exchange that for so many tons of US gold reserves is it ?

Maximus wrote: How and why would bitcoin become a global reserve currency?


Why - because it is not under the control of a singular state, not under the control of any central authority, that could use that status as a form of 'power', unique to itself at the 'expense' of all other states.

How - by two states choosing to trade with each other via bitcoin and not USD or Euro or Yen. Or being made to do so by the US trying to project its power on such states for political objectives by stopping them using the USD for such exchanges.

(all this is for me just 'musing' - these are not statements of any degree of certainty. more questions really)
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby Lordo » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:20 pm

Maximus wrote:
erolz66 wrote:All imho of course.

Bitcoin really is not anonymous. Every single transaction ever made via bitcoin is publicly view-able by anyone, which is not the case with fiat currencies. Sure the tracking is to 'addresses' and not individuals directly but really that is no different from fiat as I see things, with anonymous off shore and complex company structures - panama papers style.

It has no intrinsic value but then neither does fiat either. For me where there is utility there is value. If it allows you to do things you could not do otherwise and those things have utility to people, then it has value.

Yes it is volatile atm and too volatile to be used today as a global reserve currency but that is not necessarily going to be the case for ever.

I am suggesting it as a global reserve currency, not a replacement currency. Individual states will still have national currencies and be able to manipulate them for national interests. Just one singular state will not control the reserve currency, the one used to trade between states and currencies, as is currently the case and I see much benefit for everyone with that, except of course for the singular state that currently has that privileged, namely the USA.

Currently mining is, by design, energy inefficient but that is not set in stone with bitcoin. It will be interesting to see how ethereum deals with it up coming move from the energy inefficient model of 'proof of work' to the energy efficient model of 'proof of stake'.


I am not sure how that would work. Bitoin becoming a global reserve currency.

The USD is only the global reserve currency because it is backed by the relative strength of the US economy and their gold reserves. Which are both the largest. Also, most countries accept it for international trade and many central banks hold it in "reserve". It is popular. This is why the USD is the de facto reserve currency of the world. The worlds second and third reserve currencies are the Euro, then the Yen.

The intrinsic value from fiat currency comes from it being backed by gold and economic output.

How and why would bitcoin become a global reserve currency?

hang on a momento my little sunflower.

america has just over 500billion worth of gold and 22,000billion worth of debt
in what way are they relying on their gold reserves.
last time gold was used in anyway was 15 august 1971 and the gold standard came to an end.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby Maximus » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:31 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Backed in what way ? I mean it is not like I can send a ship from say France to the US with x million of USD and exchange that for so many tons of US gold reserves is it ?



You maybe not, but France could.

You could wire some USD to a bullion dealer and have them send you the gold by FedEx or have it stored in a vault somewhere. For example.

But really, what currency is, is an I.Owe.You for goods and services rendered. It removes the need to lug heavy goods around and go looking for a double want. Like having to lug a TV around, looking for a guy that wants your TV in exchange for his fridge. Or finding a guy that wants 6 eggs for two loathes of bread.

erolz66 wrote:Why - because it is not under the control of a singular state, not under the control of any central authority, that could use that status as a form of 'power', unique to itself at the 'expense' of all other states.

How - by two states choosing to trade with each other via bitcoin and not USD or Euro or Yen. Or being made to do so by the US trying to project its power on such states for political objectives by stopping them using the USD for such exchanges.

(all this is for me just 'musing' - these are not statements of any degree of certainty. more questions really)


Yes, questions but then my question would be; why dont they just trade with each other using their own currency?

Why do they have to use bitcoin as an intermediary and a reserve?
Last edited by Maximus on Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby Maximus » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:39 pm

Lordo wrote:hang on a momento my little sunflower.

america has just over 500billion worth of gold and 22,000billion worth of debt
in what way are they relying on their gold reserves.
last time gold was used in anyway was 15 august 1971 and the gold standard came to an end.


Alright, but modern day banking is done on a fractional model.

You can multiply that 500 billion number by at least 10.

Really. currency is just an I. Owe. You. created to conveniently facilitate trade.

Others choose to hold USD in reserve.

Why do so many Turks do it, along with Euro and GBP and not hold their own currency or bitcoin in "reserve"?
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:09 am

...confidence is always the issue.
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Re: Turkish bank charged with Iran Sanctions busting

Postby cyprusgrump » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:48 am

Lordo wrote:for too long america has controled the world. it is time to stop using the dollar. euro is a better currency.



Hahahahaha! :lol:

You're delusional... :roll:

If the €uro is such a good currency, perhaps you can explain why my bank has just written to me stating that their interest rate on €uro accounts is now -0.5%?

Negative interest rates on €uro accounts! What a strong currency it is! :lol:
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