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united kingdom government austerity programme

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Re: united kingdom government austerity programme

Postby Londonrake » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:02 pm

Lordo wrote:t

are you out of fakin popcorn yet. so now stop fakin stuffing your face.

........................................................


now answer the fakin question. assholes.


Hey, this isn't my fight. If RH wants to give you a lecture on money creation as he sees it that's up to him. I've heard it many times before.

As far as answering any question is concerned - if RH will excuse me - it's not assholes.
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Re: united kingdom government austerity programme

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:58 pm

I will reply but I feel it is a waste of time ...... it would be easier to explain quantum Physics to a Budgerigar! :roll:

Lordo:
What the hell does it mean the banks can create all the money they need.

The government needs to spend into the economy before it can get anything out of it and this is where family financing and State financing differ. You need to earn it before you can spend it but with Government it is the other way round.

When the Government wants money it gives the BoE Bonds. Bonds are an IOU that pays interest over a declared time period. These are then auctioned off to private banks who will create the money they need to buy them by an accounting entry. This number is transferred to the Government by the banks via the BoE and becomes National debt. When the private banks sell-on the Bonds they make a profit and write off their debt, this transfers the government debt to the new bond holder.

One big difference, the State can be trusted to repay the debt .... YOU can’t, so the bank needs collateral (consideration) with an equal (or higher) value ...... so they take your house as the collateral and if you fail to pay off your debt to them, they take your house permanently. What most people fail to realize is that they can also take your house even if you do keep up the payments! (Margin Call .. check it out!)

When they told you they were lending you money to buy your house ..... they were lying! They simply created a debt in a credit (Loan) account as a negative number (Debt) and, until you pay off that number down to zero, your house isn’t yours ..... it belongs to the bank! When you repay the loan it is written off the account ...... the money you repaid is thus destroyed!

Where have you been for the last 15 years.


Finding out about money creation and how the Banking/financial system works! You have obviously just swallowed the explanations without actually finding out whether what you are led to believe is true or not! It’s NOT! :shock:

If that was the case how the hell did the banks run out of money and beg the government to give them 500billion in 2008.


First, understand that Bank assets are DEBT! If the debt goes bad or the collateral is insufficient to cover the debt, then they have no or insufficient assets. (Sub-prime ring a bell..... debt the banks bought that was worth zilch?) Then the banks need someone to recover their assets so, either the Central Bank bails them out or, as happened in Cyprus, the Central Bank makes your bank enact a ‘Bail-In’. That is, they default on their liability to their depositors and write down their deposits thus reducing their liability. Then they sell off your house because you can’t pay the mortgage because the bail-in bankrupted your business/employer and you had no job.

.......there is just not enough printed currency for that.


Forget paper money! All the paper money combined from Grand Pa’s savings under the mattress to all the money in circulation and in ATM’s, accounts for less than 2% of money! The rest is all digital currency created by banks making loans ....... i.e. numbers in computers! Have you been asleep? Have you not seen the direction the banks are taking ..... they are doing away with paper money and within a decade there will just be electronic money (Cards/smart phone) and once they have everyone on that, it will be the implanted CHIP! :roll:
..... you people are clueless! Where is that 500billion now, it is on the government debt of 1.8 trillion.


The IOU's are is sitting in bank vaults as deposits of insurance companies and pension funds as government bonds (IOU’s paying interest) or the debt was ‘sold-on’ and was used to buy more financial assets ...... like shares, futures, currency speculation and property ..... you name it, anything that made money but it created zero wealth. The one thing it didn’t do was go into the economy which is why quantitative easing in the UK and in Europe , had little or no effect on the economy or inflation ....... it virtually all went into basically static financial assets.

...... can anybody explain how the banks can create their own money and yet beg for 500 billion.


Banks don’t create their own money ..... they create debt which in turn creates money in another account ..... that debt has to be repaid .... with interest! As explained briefly above but coming from practically zero knowledge on the subject of money creation you will probably find it difficult to understand!
....it is not true that we pay the banks for nothing. we pay them interest on the money we borrow and we buy a nice house in a nice area to live in and we recieve interest on the hard earned cash money we save. well at least we used to till the collapse of the financial system. and clearly the banks will not business unless there was difference in what they lend and what they recieve as depoists. no that different to currency conversion. again there is a difference between selling and buying price.


If I may quote your comment ........ you are clueless, you have no idea how the system works at all! :lol:

The interest you pay them is interest on money they don’t have and didn’t lend you ..... they just created a debt! Your deposits, which incidentally are not yours you have leant them to the bank, are lodged with the Central Bank who pay them interest on it, and the banks use it to lend between themselves, but only within the Central Bank (LIBOR ?) ..... ‘your’ money is never loaned out!
...... here is the real reason why the financiers were against joining the euro. there would be no more money to be made in conversions and we could borrow from the german banks at a much more stable rates.


Oh dear ..... what on earth makes you believe a government makes money out of currency speculation? SPECLATORS make money out of currency trading, which is why they can get rich or go bust ....... ( remember Gleeson?) ...... but they do not create wealth, they just make money, like any other financial institution and very little of that goes into the real economy.

Borrowing from German banks, or in any foreign currency, is why countries like the UK could go into a Weimar/Zimbabwe situation, which is why the UK National debt is in Sterling not foreign currencies. Same with Japan. They have the Worlds biggest debt to GDP ratio and yet still remain wealthy ..... because their debt is all in home created currency ........ it’s all in YEN!

You should at least learn something about the subject before calling others clueless and arseholes! Try this and maybe read some of the articles/papers by Prof. Bill Mitchel ............ he is Australian! :roll:

https://www.adviservoice.com.au/2019/04/cpd-modern-monetary-theory-and-why-youre-about-to-hear-a-lot-more-about-it/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwbDETx3zo0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWDxH448qok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JmWYRkMZRo

Did you know that one reason for the UK getting out of the EU, is that Article 123 of the Lisbon treaty does not allow a State with its own Sovereign currency to use that advantage to directly invest in or bail-out its own economy or institutions ...... they can only bail-out the Banks?


A thought ........ Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the whole COUNTRY ...... even the WORLD.
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Re: united kingdom government austerity programme

Postby Londonrake » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:03 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Did you know that one reason for the UK getting out of the EU, is that Article 123 of the Lisbon treaty does not allow a State with its own Sovereign currency to use that advantage to directly invest in or bail-out its own economy or institutions


That's McDonnell's (the actual puppet master) conundrum. He can't turn the UK into that pinnacle of socialist achievement, Venezuela, whilst the UK is still a member of the EU.
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Re: united kingdom government austerity programme

Postby Lordo » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:38 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Did you know that one reason for the UK getting out of the EU, is that Article 123 of the Lisbon treaty does not allow a State with its own Sovereign currency to use that advantage to directly invest in or bail-out its own economy or institutions


That's McDonnell's (the actual puppet master) conundrum. He can't turn the UK into that pinnacle of socialist achievement, Venezuela, whilst the UK is still a member of the EU.

more bullshit. the swines wanted to get out of the eu for two main reasons.
1. the new financial regulation the eu is implementing
2. they wanted to remove the human rights act.

couple of minor points were:
3. they wanted the working week directive restricting people from working more than 48 hours a week removed
4. they wanted to restrict migrants from the eu countries being able to claim benefitd for 15 years. get this they would pay into it for 15years beforethey can claim anything.
I think there may have been a couple more minor item which i would need to look into further.

i have seen real footage of the negotiations with cameron and all his staff and never heard the mention that once. I can post them for you. there are 3 1hr slots. it explains every little thing that went on. never mentioned what you said once and all the negotiations were got into in detail.

Article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty (originally Article 104 of the Maastricht Treaty) prohibits central banks such as the Bank of England from providing 'credit facilities' or purchasing bonds directly from the Treasury or any government agency.

i think you need a lawyer explain to you that one. it is not quite what you said.
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Re: united kingdom government austerity programme

Postby Robin Hood » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:55 am

Lordo:
Article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty (originally Article 104 of the Maastricht Treaty) prohibits central banks such as the Bank of England
from providing 'credit facilities' or purchasing bonds directly from the Treasury or any government agency.

i think you need a lawyer explain to you that one. it is not quite what you said.


12008E123
Consolidated version of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union - PART THREE: UNION POLICIES AND INTERNAL ACTIONS - TITLE VIII: ECONOMIC AND MONETARY POLICY - Chapter 1: Economic policy - Article 123 (ex Article 101 TEC)

Official Journal 115 , 09/05/2008 P. 0099 - 0099

Article 123

(ex Article 101 TEC)

1. Overdraft facilities or any other type of credit facility with the European Central Bank or with the central banks of the Member States (hereinafter referred to as "national central banks") in favour of Union institutions, bodies, offices or agencies, central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of Member States shall be prohibited, as shall the purchase directly from them by the European Central Bank or national central banks of debt instruments.

2. Paragraph 1 shall not apply to publicly owned credit institutions which, in the context of the supply of reserves by central banks, shall be given the same treatment by national central banks and the European Central Bank as private credit institutions.


Obviously I don’t have the command of the English language that you do but the above says to me what I said it did:

• The Central Bank (BoE) of a Country with a Sovereign currency cannot provide loans directly to the State. It acts only as an intermediary, which is why it gives Government Bonds to ‘publicly owned credit institutions’ (Banks) to sell. The Private Banks provide the loan not the BoE. It boils down to '.... they can only fund their programmes through loans from private banks!'

• But this does not apply when allowing the Central Bank (BoE) to create reserves (funds) for Private Financial Institutions. (Banks)
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