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Greece/Turkey border clashes

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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Kikapu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:34 pm

erolz66 wrote:No where have I argued that the EU should or legally must take all refugees. No where have I argued that Turkey is without blame.

On the other hand you do appear to be arguing that Turkey must take all of these refugees. You do appear to be arguing only Turkey is to blame.

My point was that these issues are shrouded in hypocrisy and your responses to date only confirm and reinforce that view for me.

Good, glad to hear it, then we have no argument, so the EU will take it’s share of genuine refugees as conditions allow and the rest of the world can do the same. International law on refugees does not only apply to the EU and yes, Turkey is the major player why these people have become refugees from Syria in the first place, to which Turkey is mainly responsible for their welfare also.

How about arguing the International law for the 1 million Syrians trying to get into Turkey from Idlib because of Turkey’s military actions there, and yet Turkey keeps them out at it’s border gate?
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:52 pm

Kikapu wrote:How about arguing the International law for the 1 million Syrians trying to get into Turkey from Idlib because of Turkey’s military actions there, and yet Turkey keeps them out at it’s border gate?


I condemn such without equivocation. It was not however the point I was and have been making. I want to see Turkey behave better on these issues and I want to see the EU behave better on these issue. Neither's track record is good. What is more I am not Turkish. I am European (British and Cypriot). Thus criticising the actions of my OWN leaders comes before blaming others for me. On the other hand denying any failures of my leaders whilst blaming and criticising the actions only of others is to me the very definition of hypocrisy.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Kikapu » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:42 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Kikapu wrote:How about arguing the International law for the 1 million Syrians trying to get into Turkey from Idlib because of Turkey’s military actions there, and yet Turkey keeps them out at it’s border gate?


I condemn such without equivocation. It was not however the point I was and have been making. I want to see Turkey behave better on these issues and I want to see the EU behave better on these issue. Neither's track record is good. What is more I am not Turkish. I am European (British and Cypriot). Thus criticising the actions of my OWN leaders comes before blaming others for me. On the other hand denying any failures of my leaders whilst blaming and criticising the actions only of others is to me the very definition of hypocrisy.


I’m sorry, I thought you were only championing the arguments on International Law references to refugees without qualifications.

My mistake!
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:46 pm

:roll:

You are criticizing Greece and those proponents that support Greece's position to block entry..

You should be arguing for them to be sent to Britain or the "TRNC" then and reconsider they way you come across which is, supporting Turkey on practically any topic.

erolz66 wrote:
I condemn such without equivocation. It was not however the point I was and have been making. I want to see Turkey behave better on these issues and I want to see the EU behave better on these issue. Neither's track record is good. What is more I am not Turkish. I am European (British and Cypriot). Thus criticising the actions of my OWN leaders comes before blaming others for me. On the other hand denying any failures of my leaders whilst blaming and criticising the actions only of others is to me the very definition of hypocrisy.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:00 pm

Maximus wrote::roll:

You are criticizing Greece and those proponents that support Greece's position to block entry..

You should be arguing for them to be sent to Britain or the "TRNC" then and reconsider they way you come across which is, supporting Turkey on practically any topic.


I have done way back to 2015. When the UK back in 2015 set its limit on how many Syrian refugees it would 'accept' to 20,000 I condemned such loudly and publicly. I can show the evidence if you like. What I was responding here in this thread was the apportioning of blame solely to Turkey and the attempt do deny any complicity by Greece or the EU to the situation.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:08 pm

You a re like a puzzle erolz, without a clear picture as to how all the pieces should fit together.

This thread is about Greece / Turkey border clashes and Turkey is to blame for the situation on the Greek border.

Turkey is also mostly to blame for the situation in Syria.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:18 pm

Maximus wrote:This thread is about Greece / Turkey border clashes and Turkey is to blame for the situation on the Greek border.


I do not believe that to be true in the sense of it being solely responsible. If the EU , UK and countless other countries had of behaved differently since this all started in 2015, in ways that were compatible with the laws on asylum, instead of in ways that have consistently sought to undermine them, then what is happening now and the ability for Turkey to exploit that in the ways that it is would be very very different. The idea that 'everything was OK until Turkey stopped preventing people from crossing Turkey to seek sanctuary outside of Turkey and instead encouraged and helped them do so' is not one I subscribe to.

Maximus wrote:Turkey is also mostly to blame for the situation in Syria.


Nor do I personally believe this to be true. Actors like Assad, Russia, USA, UK, France and EU generally via NATO, Iran, Israel and others have all played their part in creating and sustaining the mess that is Syria today, along with Turkey. To simply state Turkey is mostly to blame is for me more a reflection of your personal prejudiced than any actual objective reality.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:42 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Maximus wrote:This thread is about Greece / Turkey border clashes and Turkey is to blame for the situation on the Greek border.


I do not believe that to be true in the sense of it being solely responsible. If the EU , UK and countless other countries had of behaved differently since this all started in 2015, in ways that were compatible with the laws on asylum, instead of in ways that have consistently sought to undermine them, then what is happening now and the ability for Turkey to exploit that in the ways that it is would be very very different. The idea that 'everything was OK until Turkey stopped preventing people from crossing Turkey to seek sanctuary outside of Turkey and instead encouraged and helped them do so' is not one I subscribe to.


That is not one i subscribe to either and that is not what this thread is about. it is about the current situation on the Greek Border.

We know what you think, but that does not change anything.

Maximus wrote:Turkey is also mostly to blame for the situation in Syria.


Nor do I personally believe this to be true. Actors like Assad, Russia, USA, UK, France and EU generally via NATO, Iran, Israel and others have all played their part in creating and sustaining the mess that is Syria today, along with Turkey. To simply state Turkey is mostly to blame is for me more a reflection of your personal prejudiced than any actual objective reality.


Yeah they all played their part but Turkey is mostly to blame for the situation in Syria. This is simply Duvatuglu's "strategic depth" gone wrong. :roll:

There is more to my opinion than simply stating that it is just my personal prejudice than any actual objective reality. This seems to be your stock answer whenever you read me writing anything negative about your beloved Turkey. Just dismiss it and write it off as a not objective reality. How convenient for you but you seem very reactive to these kind of comments. Why get so butt hurt and defensive of Turkey for someone who claims that they are not a Turk? :roll:

The scope of this objective reality is far too great to discuss now and in this thread.

There is another thread dedicated to the subject, that is 342 pages long and it started in 2012. You are welcome to read that and get up to speed from the beginning.

The war against Syria, here > cyprus37134.html
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:57 pm

Maximus wrote:There is more to my opinion than simply stating that it is just my personal prejudice than any actual objective reality. This seems to be your stock answer whenever you read me writing anything negative about your beloved Turkey. However, the scope of this objective reality is far too great to discuss now and in this thread.


In my defence I did say 'more a reflection' which is simply my opinion. If my post implied to you a disparagement of my view on your intelligence then that was not my intent. We all, myself included, carry prejudices. That I engage with you here in the way that I do is because I do not think you are stupid. We all carry notions about other people that are more misunderstanding, for whatever reason, than reality. Your view that I 'love' Turkey is one such example but countless others examples could be given, including many where I am the party that has misunderstood the reality of what someone else thinks.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Yeah whatever, I am a thick skinned individual so it doesn't really bother me and Turkey is an evil POS.

My opinion wont change until she changes.
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