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Civilisation

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Re: Civilisation

Postby Maximus » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:47 pm

I have learnt nothing from this thread so far,

except, what we can and cant talk about.

What is the first sign of civilization Bordo? :roll:
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Maximus wrote:I have learnt nothing from this thread so far,

except, what we can and cant talk about.

What is the first sign of civilization Bordo? :roll:

You have to use the brains you are supposed to have. I am not asking for the first sign of civilisation. I am asking for some evidence that you can say "These people were had the beginings of civilisation", It really aint that hard.
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:26 am

Here is one such evidence.

′′ A student once asked anthropologist Margaret Mead what she considered the first sign of civilization in a culture The student expected the anthropologist to talk about hooks, clay bowls, or stones to sharpen, but not. Mead said the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture is proof of a person with a broken and healed femur.
Mead explained that in the rest of the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You can't run away from danger, go to the river to drink water, or hunt to feed you. You become fresh meat for predators. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal. A broken femur that healed is proof that someone took the time to stay with the one who fell, healed the injury, put the person to safety and took care of him until he recovered. ′′ Helping someone through difficulty is the starting point of civilization ", Mead explained.
Civilization is community aid."
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:06 am

Lordo wrote:Here is one such evidence.

′′ A student once asked anthropologist Margaret Mead what she considered the first sign of civilization in a culture The student expected the anthropologist to talk about hooks, clay bowls, or stones to sharpen, but not. Mead said the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture is proof of a person with a broken and healed femur.
Mead explained that in the rest of the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You can't run away from danger, go to the river to drink water, or hunt to feed you. You become fresh meat for predators. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal. A broken femur that healed is proof that someone took the time to stay with the one who fell, healed the injury, put the person to safety and took care of him until he recovered. ′′ Helping someone through difficulty is the starting point of civilization ", Mead explained.
Civilization is community aid."


Not true. Many animals heal naturally.
What she describes is "socialisation" not civilisation. Many species develop a compex type of society, ants bees, wolves etc.
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:46 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:Here is one such evidence.

′′ A student once asked anthropologist Margaret Mead what she considered the first sign of civilization in a culture The student expected the anthropologist to talk about hooks, clay bowls, or stones to sharpen, but not. Mead said the first sign of civilization in an ancient culture is proof of a person with a broken and healed femur.
Mead explained that in the rest of the animal kingdom, if you break your leg, you die. You can't run away from danger, go to the river to drink water, or hunt to feed you. You become fresh meat for predators. No animal survives a broken leg long enough for the bone to heal. A broken femur that healed is proof that someone took the time to stay with the one who fell, healed the injury, put the person to safety and took care of him until he recovered. ′′ Helping someone through difficulty is the starting point of civilization ", Mead explained.
Civilization is community aid."


Not true. Many animals heal naturally.
What she describes is "socialisation" not civilisation. Many species develop a compex type of society, ants bees, wolves etc.

Agreed. There are family orientated animals that can take care of their injured family members and they will survive. But I fear no animal can fix a broken femur like that. And in any case under these circumstances as they are not taking part in the hunt they tend to be at the back of the que when it comes to food.

Read te reasoning? Does any animal do what she suggestes humans did? I suspect not.
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:44 pm

Interesting that the invading Whites actually think they are more civilised than the natives. These Native Australians must have been so thankful being saved these brave Australian airmen indeed.

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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:03 pm

I can see the shear joy on the faces of Native Austrakians finally meeting their civilisators. Perhaps this is what civilisation is but in desgise.
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:14 pm

Lordo wrote:Agreed. There are family orientated animals that can take care of their injured family members and they will survive. But I fear no animal can fix a broken femur like that. And in any case under these circumstances as they are not taking part in the hunt they tend to be at the back of the que when it comes to food.

Read te reasoning? Does any animal do what she suggestes humans did? I suspect not.


You may google altruism and empathy in animals and you will find many examples where animals do help each other.
Still what she descibes is socialisation of humans. Such socialisation existed from the stone age, while there was absolutely no civilisation.

From the other pictures you posted it seems to me you want to equate civilisation with humanity. Not the same thing.
There has not been any civilisation that did not contain brutality and slavery in one form or another so far.
However they all contained theology, science,engineering,Architecture, arts etc.
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Re: Civilisation

Postby Lordo » Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:07 am

This is not equating civilisation with humanity. What was said was the fact that first sign of civilisation was humanity, There were civilisation with selective humanity like when they were sacrificing people to please their gods.

As to animals, they cannot set a bone to fix it all some animals do is live in families so those who are sick in someway have the protection of the family and are not allowed to starve to death. But this only occures in only some animals which live in groups. A lot of animals live alone and they would kill any other in their territory. Even volves do not tolerate any outsiders most of the time.

Humans used to be like that too, but we have evolved to be humane and look after the weak. The real issue is where is humanity now. Judging by what is said by some people, it has vanished. One lady I was talking to said that the coastguard should punctrue in the refufegee boats so they sink. This was an ordinary member of the public.

Are you saying that we can have civilisation without humanity. Surely humanity has to be part of civilisation. Without it it is just sugarcoating barbarism. But I guess even barbarism can be considered to be a civilisation except that between 1 and 10, it sits about -10,000.

As to your last point, they are all included in civilisation but without humaity they are worthless.
Lets take Roman civilisation that held people as slaves and had gladiators fighting to the death. They were hanging people alive on a cross and allowed to bleed to death over number of days. And yet we refer to it as civilsation. Indeed what did the Romans do for us?

Going back to the engineering theme. Civilisation without humanity is like a building without foundation. The foundation of civilisation is humanity. Without it the building is very unsafe.

Which takes us back to what Ghandi said when he was asked what he thought of British Civilisation.

Just two facts that spring to mind.

Churchill decided to:
transfer grain into UK in 1943 just incase it is needed after the war and starved 3 million people do death in India.
And burned their fleet so they could not bring any in.

I mean the civilisation and humanity shines through by one tthe most loved British leaders as the person who saved Europe from the nazis. But thats another storey.
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