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SETTLERS-SHALL THEY GO SHALL THEY STAY?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby metecyp » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:26 pm

I bet that most will go given the right incentive, and that usually means money. So, metecyp, do you think that if these people are offered enough money to leave does that mean it is a bad thing?

No it's not a bad thing. If they accept money to go back, then we'll be happy, they'll be happy...But I know that for some of them money is not going to be enough. Especially the ones that came right after 1974 or the ones that are married to TCs.
Also, if most settlers have not fitted in with the culturally different Cypriots, would you prefer them to stay?

No I don't prefer them to stay. If it was possible, I would have preferred all of them to leave. But there are settlers who adapted to Cypriot culture and these are mainly the ones I mentioned before (came right after 1974, married to a TC, etc) and they have no life other than what they have in Cyprus (especially for their kids). So I think it's cruel (as it was cruel to force GCs leave from the north) to force these people go if they don't want to go.
But, thought should also be given to the rights of the refugees and their ancestral homes. There seems to be a lack of concern by the TC's on this issue.

I agree that GC refugees were victims in 1974 and I hope most of them return back. But you cannot solve a problem by creating more victims. Of course the GC refugees have rights but you cannot simply dismiss the settlers living there for 30 years either.

This is the same old dilemma of legality vs. reality. We wish everything was legal but in reality, that's not the case and there's no magic formula to make everything legal without considering the realities.

But as a side note, I've heard some stories of settlers that came from Turkey, they had no money in their pocket. They were given GC land and house. Now with the development boom in the north, their land got more expensive. They sold "their" land for thousands of pounds and left to Turkey. And after a solution, it'll be TCs and GCs trying to figure out who gets what when that settler will be comfortably living in Turkey on our expense. That's why we should also be careful about them. It's important to distinguish these type of settlers from ordinary settlers that truly contributes to our island.
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Postby -mikkie2- » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:08 pm

Metecyp,

But I know that for some of them money is not going to be enough. Especially the ones that came right after 1974 or the ones that are married to TCs.


You have not read my post properly. I said that settlers that came in the 70's and those married to TC's will need to be treated differently because their children will now be grown up. These people should be given the option to decide what they want to do.

What I want to see is for most of the settlers to be given the incentive to leave, with the above exceptions.
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Postby brother » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:28 pm

The Cyprus Weekly 15 October 2004



Tassos takes message to Finland and Estonia

President Papadopoulos stressed during visits to Finland and Estonia this week that Cyprus does not object to Turkey’s accession to the European Union and does not wish to prove an obstacle to this process provided Ankara accepts European values and principles and desists from military interventions in other countries.

A Turkey complying fully with the acquis communautaire and respecting all the principles and values of the EU, such as human rights and resistance from military intervention would be beneficial for the Greek Cypriots, the Turkish Cypriots, the Turks and the EU itself, he added.

In Helsinki, Papadopoulos held talks with President Tarja Halonen and Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen. He later went to Tallin (via Moscow) where he discussed Cyprus, bilateral relations and EU issues with Estonia’s President Arnold Routel.

His hosts expressed support for Cyprus’ sovereignty, and the hope that despite the disappointing referendum result last April, a way would be found for the reunification of the island, now that Turkey was aspiring to join the EU.

President Halonen said a Cyprus settlement would benefit the region and Europe in general. The current situation with Cyprus as a full member and Turkey aspiring to join the Union was a "historically good phase".

Prime Minister Vanhanen said Finland had hoped for a positive result in the April referendum. But he believed the island’s reunification could become a reality in the future. At present Helsinki did not have a specific policy on this matter "but we hope, just as the whole of the EU does, to see the island united". Finland was ready to help.

President Papadoploulos told newsmen that Turkey’s European aspirations could provide a very propitious opportunity for the start of a fresh effort through dialogue to solve the Cyprus problem.

In Tallin, Papadopoulos said his government was "very keen to see a revival of talks" for a settlement, adding "we would like Turkey to respond to the concerns of the Greek Cypriots regarding its attitude towards Cyprus".

The Estonian President said: "We support Cyprus," but would not go into details, saying the various issues were being discussed at the EU.

Speaking at a dinner in Helsinki, Papadopoulos said while Cyprus was in principle positively disposed towards Turkey’s EU membership, the occupation of Cyprus and its concomitant phenomena could not be relegated to the status of a non-issue in the relations between Turkey and the European Union.

"Furthermore a European Union candidate country aspiring for a date for accession negotiations cannot, in good faith, refuse to extend to a Member State treatment equal to that accorded to the rest

of the European Partners,'' he added.

"Approaches which disregard the legal and political obligations of Turkey vis-a-vis the Republic of Cyprus as a Member State of the European Union, disinsentivize any future effort for a solution that will bring about the political and economic re-unification of Cyprus".

In her speech Halonen said that with the beginning of Turkey's accession negotiations, the EU would promote Turkey's progress and that would have a "positive impact on efforts for a Cyprus settlement.''

As regards the results of a referendum last April, on a UN proposed solution plan for a Cyprus settlement, the Finnish President said that ''despite our disappointment in spring, Finland is convinced that the Cyprus government is engaged in reuniting'' the island.

Halonen expressed hope that the line dividing Cyprus will be history, as was the case in other parts of Europe.

Papadopoulos reiterated his commitment to a solution of a bicommunal bizonal federation that would "safeguard functional and viable state structures, the genuine re-unification of the country, the health of its economy and the interests of the people of Cyprus as a whole".

He added that ''in rejecting the Annan Plan, by a 76% majority, the Greek Cypriots did not reject the solution of the Cyprus problem, nor did they reject the re-unification of their country. They rejected that particular plan, judging that it did not provide for real reunification of their county, nor the withdrawal of the Turkish occupation army, nor a functional and viable solution".

"I firmly believe that the referenda of April last on the Annan Plan are not the end of the way,'' Papadopoulos stressed, adding that ''the end of the way will only be a just, functional and viable solution to the Cyprus problem, based on an amended and agreed upon version of Annan V that will address the legitimate concerns of Greek Cypriots without, necessarily, depriving Turkish Cypriots of rights and privileges accorded to them.''

As regards the enhancing of the economic development of the Turkish Cypriots, Papadopoulos said ''we fervently support'' it, but noted that it should be pursued in the context of the fundamental aim of reuniting Cyprus in accordance with the Conclusions of the European

Union's General Affairs Council of 26 April 2004.

"All efforts in this direction should neither subvert international legality nor encourage separatist tendencies, which would entrench the island's division".

Thanks

He thanked the Government of Finland for the understanding it exhibited vis-a-vis the position of the Government of Cyprus in recent discussions in the COREPER of the European Union of two proposals, for the economic assistance to the Turkish Cypriot community and for trade and commerce.

''We ask the international community to appreciate that the so-called 'economic isolation' of the Turkish

Cypriots, is, to a great extent, self-imposed and a result of separatist and secessionist policies engaged pursuant to the political aim of the Turkish Cypriot leadership to be elevated to the status of a separate legal entity or statehood. An eventuality which the Government of Cyprus will never accept.''
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Postby metecyp » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:29 pm

What I want to see is for most of the settlers to be given the incentive to leave, with the above exceptions.

We agree then.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:34 pm

I think we are messing up 2 things.The presense of settlers and the illegal use of properties that belong to GCs. After a solution the settlers have to return the properties they are using as well as the lands they are cultivating to the legal owners.What will they do then? Most of them are plowmen. Live on our wellfare? And why on our wellfare on not on Turkeys wellfare? And why should we pay compensation for them to go back to Turkey and not Turkey pay them that compensation.
Regarding the children of the settlers born here. How about comparing them with the children of the GC refugees.The first ones got a stolen house and huge lands by the sea, the second ones got raised in a 36 square mettre refugee appartment for a family of 4! Whose children do have priority in getting their rights back?
It's one thing to let the children of the settlers stay, and another to let them keep the stolen properties that they now hold.

In my opinion the settlers don't really have a choice.They must accept compensation (paid by Turkey) or they will stay here propertyless and suffer.

Thinking of that maybe a political agreement that will "force" them all to leave, might be against human rights, but on the other hand it might be necessary for the stability of the new state!
In any case I don't see any agreement for Bi-zonal Bi-communal Federation coming that will not violate some human rights of the GCs.

So if the human rights of the real Cypriots are going to be violated to some degree, then why the human rights of illegal settlers stay intact?
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Postby BigDutch » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

metecyp wrote:
..... I've heard some stories of settlers that came from Turkey, they had no money in their pocket. They were given GC land and house. Now with the development boom in the north, their land got more expensive. They sold "their" land for thousands of pounds and left to Turkey. And after a solution, it'll be TCs and GCs trying to figure out who gets what when that settler will be comfortably living in Turkey on our expense.


That is truly worrying.
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Postby metecyp » Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:08 pm

MicAtCyp wrote: So if the human rights of the real Cypriots are going to be violated to some degree, then why the human rights of illegal settlers stay intact?

Their human rights won't stay intact. First all settlers that recently came to Cyprus for work or whatever who don't really have families here will leave. Second, settlers that agree to get money to leave are going to leave. Third, settlers that came to Cyprus long time ago and have children here and have nowhere else to go will stay but they'll probably end up emptying the GC house they occupy or pay compensation for it (because they didn't leave any property in the south to "deserve" the property they're occupying).

So settlers will either be compensated to leave or if they stay, I can't imagine a situation where a settler stays in Cyprus and keeps the house he's occupying with no charge. There'll be a price to pay either way and I agree that Turkey or at least some international fund should be responsible to pay for settlers' return.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:38 pm

Metecyp wrote: First all settlers that recently came to Cyprus for work or whatever who don't really have families here will leave. Second, settlers that agree to get money to leave are going to leave. Third, settlers that came to Cyprus long time ago and have children here and have nowhere else to go will stay but they'll probably end up emptying the GC house they occupy or pay compensation for it (because they didn't leave any property in the south to "deserve" the property they're occupying).


And what kind of violation of human rights do you see here? A choice of free will is a violation of human rights?

Metecyp wrote: So settlers will either be compensated to leave or if they stay, I can't imagine a situation where a settler stays in Cyprus and keeps the house he's occupying with no charge. There'll be a price to pay either way and I agree that Turkey or at least some international fund should be responsible to pay for settlers' return.


My friend if they had the money to pay, then they wouldnt come here on the first place. Second who you think is going to set the price, the buyer(settler) or the owner (GC refugee)?And what if the GC does not want to sell? And third do you think we will ever sign an agreement without knowing in advance how many the settlers who will stay will be, how many of those who will stay will accept to get compensation to leave (by signing a paper in advance), how much money will be required , and also get quarantees from the source and for the amount of that money?

All these have to be done before signing an agreement, and settlers who will not stay cannot vote at a referendum

Compare what I said with the ridiculous provisions of the Anan Plan in which all the settlers voted...
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Postby brother » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:12 pm

You're statements hit the nail right on the head, they will not leave until they know whats in it for them as they were all pennyless when they came.
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