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Greek double standarts

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Greek double standarts

Postby bg_turk » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:38 pm

The Cham conflict arose as a result of the delineation of the border between Greece and Albania at the end of the Balkan Wars. In 1912 the London Ambassador's Conference allotted the Chameria region to Greece, so today only seven Cham villages, centred on the village of Konispol, are in Albania itself. There were three distinct phases of emigration of the Cham population from northern Greece. The first occurred during the Balkan Wars 1912-1914, the second following the signing of the Turkish-Greek Convention at Lausanne in January 1923, and the third occurred at the end of the Second World War, in the period from June 1944 to March 1945, during which an estimated 5,000 men, women and children were killed. The rest of Chameria's Albanian Muslim population fled over the border to Albania where they have lived in exile ever since.

The Chams are demanding the recognition of about 4,000 Chams who disappeared as a result of those conflicts, and the property rights of about 150,000 others.3 The Chams are also building charges against Greece at the international courts, arguing that they were stripped of around US$340m-worth of properties which are worth roughly US$2.5bn at current market prices. The Greeks, however, see the Cham question as a "non existent issue".


The outbreak of the Second World War brought about a brief union (1941-1943) of Kosovo with Albania, and the possibility of the remaining Albanian-inhabited regions of the Balkans being united. In August 1940 Italy invaded Greece. In an effort to rally the Albanian people to her cause, Italy had promised the Albanians their national unity. The German-Italian agreement of 1941 stipulated the formation of a 'Greater Albania', to include the large Albanian-inhabited areas of Yugoslavia and, to a lesser extent, Greece. The Italians were able to exploit Albanian irredentist sentiment by insisting that the unification of all Albanian-inhabited lands was conditional upon an Axis victory. The Chams were subsequently armed by the Italians and co-operated with them against Greek villages controlled by Greek resistance fighters. During this period, atrocities were committed by a minority of Chams against Greek civilians, thousands of whom were forced to flee from their homes. The majority of Chams, however, were merely passive collaborators, distrusting the Italians as much as they did the Greek Royalist guerrilla force of Napoleon Zervas. In little over a year, Greek forces were able to push the Italians back over the Albanian border. There was widespread alarm amongst the Chams when the hoped-for Axis victory turned to defeat. Near the village of Vrina in southern Albania, in June 1940, the headless body of the Cham leader Daut Hoxa was discovered. It was alleged by the Italian-controlled government in Tirana that he had been murdered by Greek secret agents. Hoxha was a military leader of the Cham struggle during the inter-war years. The Greek government claimed he was merely a bandit.14 In October 1944 when the Germans began withdrawing from Greece, many hundreds of Chams also fled with them into Albania. Henceforth, the remaining Muslim Albanians in Greece were regarded by the Greeks as the enemy within.


The most infamous massacre of Albanian Muslims by Greek irregulars occurred on 27 June 1944 in the district of Paramithia, when forces of General Zervas's National Republican Greek League (EDES) entered the town and killed approximately 600 Albanian Muslims, men women and children - many having been raped and tortured before death. According to eyewitness accounts, the following day, another EDES battalion marched into Parga where 52 more Albanians were killed. On 23
September 1944, the town of Spatar was looted and 157 people died. Young women and girls were raped and those men who were still alive were rounded up and deported to the Aegean islands.16 According to statistics provided by the Chameria Association in Tirana, in total 2,771 Albanian civilians were killed during the1944-1945 attacks on their villages. The breakdown is as follows: in Filiates and suburbs 1,286, in Igoumenitsa and suburbs 192, in Paramithia and suburbs 673 and Parga
620. Sixty-eight villages with 5,800 houses were looted and then burnt. A detailed list of material losses includes 110,000 sheep, 2,400 cattle, 21,000 quintals of wheat and 80,000 quintals of edible oil, amounting to 11,000,000 kilograms of grain and 3,000,000 kilograms of edible oil.17

Source:
http://www.da.mod.uk/CSRC/documents/balkans/G109

The similarities are striking arent they?

Will Greece apply the same standarts to the Albanians of Chameria it demands for the Greeks of Cyprus?

If the expulsion of Chams can be justified by the actions of few extremists, can the expulsion of Greeks be justified by the actions of EOKA?

Will Greece continue to hold on to stolen Cham property?
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Postby Lala_Mustafa_Pasha » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:56 pm

Our poor Albanian brother and sisters I hope they get justice :(
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Postby cypezokyli » Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:41 pm

two things.
first as i metnioned repeatedly, the balkans are victims of nationalism bc there were very few "pure" regions. when the borders were drown there were unavoidably "albanian" villages in greece, and "greek" villages in albania. as a concequence everyone had expanionists aspirations, inlcuding the albanians as far as i understand from this article.

EDES, were the guerilla fighter of the right. they were 10 times smaller than ELAS-EAM the guerilla fighters controlled from the communist party of greece. ELAS-EAM, are the ones who cuased more problems to the german occupation. EDES was actually supported by the english, at at times, the official english documents, show that even before the war was over, they were trying to create civil war in greeece. the crimes that, the extreme right wing have caused, to the greek people themselves are way bigger than the albanian massacres - which are ofource to be condemned. all i am trying to say, is that EDES is abslutely NOT, the biggest, nor the most important, partisan organisation. as a concequence it is not representative :wink:

funny, i was discussing that with a greek communist lately :roll: and she said that when her grandfather joined tha army against italy he said that they were fighting against the italian fascist and the greek fascists
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Postby pumpernickle » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:28 am

1- far too much copy and pasting going on. Sane people get bored after 1 paragraph. Try and make your point more succinct.

2- Is this endless barrage of propaganda and back biting going to get anyone anywhere? pointless exercise, save your poor monitor screen the exertion of having to provide pixel space for this droning sh1te

3- Educated people don't read forum posts for pointers - so unless your mission is to annoy your 'enemies', save yourself the bother and go for a stroll.

4- At what point will you be satisfied your point is accepted? Or are you practising your touch type skills for that secretarial exam in May.

YOU BORE ME.
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Postby bg_turk » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:53 am

Look I dont give a damn whether you are bored or not.
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Postby Agios Amvrosios » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:02 am

WHo on this forum gives a shit about about Albanians BG Turk...go post on an albanian forum.

Stick to Cypriot issues
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Postby bg_turk » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:13 am

The ethnic cleansing of Chams from their homeland and the illegal expropriation of their properties is very similar to the case of Cyprus. Do you support the return of all properties to their legal owners?
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Postby kalamaras74 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:38 pm

The Chams suffered just like everyone else suffered during the civil war. If they have a case, they should take it to the ICHR as they have done. I would imagine that the burden of proof is great for them as it is two generations already.

This is a bilateral issue between Greece and Albania. The Greeks want to keep it as Greek as possible on both sides of the border by discouraging emigration of Greek Minority members from the north as it is very difficult to get Greek citizenship if you are from there. I know this because I have tried to do it and there is a paperwork snag if your parents are from Northern Epirus as is my case. They do not allow Chams to apply for passports either, as the application requires you to prove that you are Orthodox by submitting a marriage and baptismal certificate.

The Albanians who want to deny or downplay the existence of the Greek minority have an interest in pushing the envelope with the Chams. They claim that there is no question of "Northern Epirus" and that, in fact, Chameria extends way South to Ioannina. As Cypokyzli said, the Balkans are replete with these types of situations. I doubt that I could theoretically apply to get my ancestral home back either.

The case of Epirus roughly mirrors that of Cyprus, and there is no doubt that Epirus had its own unique mix of ethnic groups before the war. It is a little more complicated because there was a civil war going on and not a bi-communal dispute like Cyprus.
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Postby Michael » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:04 pm

Yes, including Anatolia. Now Mr Big Turk pack your bags and get back to the Mongolian stepps where you belong. And take your bird flu with you
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Postby bg_turk » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:21 pm

[quote="kalamaras74"]The Chams suffered just like everyone else suffered during the civil war. If they have a case, they should take it to the ICHR as they have done./quote]


Finally a constructive statement. I am glad you acknowledge their right to pursue the case in the ECHR, at least you are consistent with your cause in Cyprus now.
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