Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I have suspected that the strategy being employed by Papadopoulos is to pretend our views don't matter, it seems he has persuaded some of his people also.

Nobody said that your views should not matter. I never said that Turkish Cypriots should have no voice. What I said is that today, unfortunately, you have no control and no power to negotiate. Do you honestly think that TCs are the ones to decide if the Turkish army will stay in Cyprus or not or any matter of great importance that will affect the strategic interests of Turkey itself? If Turkey didn't "change" her policies, Denctash would still be the powerful one. How come all of a sudden in the "trnc" the "prime minister" is "in charge" instead of the "president"?

As I said we should talk with Turkish Cypriots about other internal problems that we had before 1974 and how the new thing we will build will be better. However, and sorry if I offend you, the truth is that you simply do not have the power to take some decisions, and those decisions should be negotiated directly with Turkey itself. I would much prefer if the power was on TCs because solving the Cyprus problem would have been way easier. Unfortunately this is not the case.

[mehmet]

Look, before 1974 and since 1963 Greek Cypriots were negotiating with Denktas from a position of strength. You had the RoC, you had all the military forces and you had the world convinced that we were the problem. So confident were some Greek Cypriot's they thought they could overthhrow Makarios because to their mind he was not bringing about union with Greece quick enough. Not that he was a traitor, just that he was too slow. We know where that mentality led us, this is why today we are still talking about refugees, missing persons etc.

And now you say we should line up with you and attack Turkey and blame them for everything. If you couldn't (not you personally) offer a solution when you had all that strength to push us about and treat us like criminals, why do you think now our interests lie in attacking the country that stopped our suffering in 1974 (and caused much more suffering in return).

You will see where Papadopoulos will lead you, but we will not follow you in that direction. If you have peaceful and positive intentions there will not be a shortage of Turkish Cypriots who will join with you to support a solution. Don't ask us to follow Papadopoulos, we know who he is and what his history is. It would be like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas as they say in England.

[MicAtCyp]

REPEAT!

Brother, don't beleive him. He is a liar, basically.

Are you calling me a liar Bananiot?

[-mikkie2-]

I think that many of you don't realise the implications of disolving the RoC and to create something else in its place.

The consequences of doing that means that we would be in limbo. We would be at the mercy of the foreign powers to keep their word. What guarantees do we have? That is the problem. In addition, we absolve Turkey from her responsibilities and not only that, we give her even more power in Cyprus.

The way I see things is for the RoC to be modified to take account of a negotiated solution. It is obvious that now that it is not possibe to move away from the bizonal federal state. How many people would want to return to their former homes is an unknown, but to not give people the choice is a travesty of justice. From the territorial point of view, the adjustments would mean that the TC's would be far in the majority in the areas they control under the federal solution therefore the scaremongering that GC's would overwhelm the TC's is false.

Taking account of territorial adjustment would mean around 100000 GC's will return under the GC federal state. That leaves another 60000 or so that could possibly return under the TC federal state (assuming that all would want to return).

Looking at the numbers, I do not think that even if all GC's returned, that they would constitute a threat to the TC's. Probably half would end up returning or wanting to return.

In any case modifying the RoC is the safest way to bring about a new state of affairs, without the risk of us being left in limbo. If the TC's think that is a bad thing then I want to know why. What is wrong with claiming your rights under the RoC and then negotiating a settlement? From your current illegal standpoint it makes it very difficult to negotiate anything. At least under the RoC you would have a legal basis to negotiate, you would have recognition as a partner in the RoC and you would be in control of your negotiating position.

In any case, the game that Papadopoulos is playing is one of limiting the influence of Turkey in the solution of the problem. The fact that the RoC exists and is a full EU member is something Turkey cannot change. Now, after 30 years we have leverage over Turkey which we never had before.

The situation we have been faced with as a community, is the GC's vs Turkey. Now if that is not a one sided fight then I don't know what is! At least now we have leveled the playing field.

[metecyp]

In any case modifying the RoC is the safest way to bring about a new state of affairs, without the risk of us being left in limbo. If the TC's think that is a bad thing then I want to know why. What is wrong with claiming your rights under the RoC and then negotiating a settlement?

Can you explain this further? So you're asking TCs to return back to the RC. I assume this means everything goes back to where it stood in 1960, so everyone goes to their house, Turkish army leaves, and so on. So what will *guarantee* that we will indeed have a bizonal federal solution after all this happens? For example, what would stop GCs from resisting any federalization of the RC by claiming that any federal solution is against democracy and any limitation of GC return is against human rights?

[-mikkie2-]

I assume this means everything goes back to where it stood in 1960, so everyone goes to their house, Turkish army leaves, and so on. So what will *guarantee* that we will indeed have a bizonal federal solution after all this happens?

I don't think it would mean that at all. The purpose is to stop Turkey from negotiatiating on your behalf and to place responsibility on Turkey for what it has done to Cyprus over the past 30 years.

[brother]

So when do we get greece to pay for its crimes in starting the cyprus problems in the 1960 to 1974.

They are just as much to blame and i do not recall them EVER apologizing for the suffering they caused on both communities.

[mehmet]

brother, don't you get it? When Greeks/Greek Cypriots have contributed to destabilisation they are 'traiors'. Therefore the ROC or Greece has no responsibility for the suffering they caused.

[-mikkie2-]

Again, I have to disagree with you.

People that have perpertrated crimes in Cyprus will have to be brought to justice, whether greek or turkish.

Any solution would have to address these issues if we are ever to move on.

[brother]

now thats the truth crime must be punished