Cyprus-Forum.com

[rawk]

Hi Tony-4497

4497! Gosh there must be a lot of you!

I thought your points were well argued except over the proposed distribution of land according to population, I can't think of any other precedence for this, nor whether current national boundaries in countries all over the world reflect their populations in terms of area.

I don't think the basic issue is over land (I expect quite a few posters to this BB will hit the roof reading that) but recompense, compensation, weregeld... whatever you want to call it. If my family lost land back in 1974 and we have moved and have settled ourselves, our children have grown up and our parents have passed on who left that land, I'm not to sure I want to uproot and go to as place with bad memories. I'd just like a golden handshake and to be able to pass that money on to my children to enable them to buy their own properties in this new Cyprus.

I'm sorry, but the old dream of buying a farm with olive trees, goats and vineyards is gone. My kids want jobs, cars, money, mobile phones, clothes, travel to the UK, USA, Australia to see their relatives. Sure, they will pay homage to the old ways but a lot of us don't want to go back. Its too long and too painful, it would achieve nothing. The land split ratio thing is meaningless.

rawk

[cypezokyli]

the basic issue is land. or at least one of the basic.
and dont confuce the will of refuggees to return with their right to return.

.....
not everything is about money and mobiles and cars....

[rawk]

cypezokyli

Tell that to the kids of today, I wish it was different. They want everything right here, right now! As a kid I would have been grateful for just a little of what they have now.

I do take you comment on not confusing the will to return with the right to return. Good point, well made.
But as Bakala said on another thread about possession being nine tenths of the law, a right that is not exercised becomes extinct in law and reality. Laws reflect the reality of situations, otherwise they are repealed.

rawk

[cypezokyli]

cypezokyli

Tell that to the kids of today, I wish it was different. They want everything right here, right now! As a kid I would have been grateful for just a little of what they have now.

I do take you comment on not confusing the will to return with the right to return. Good point, well made.
But as Bakala said on another thread about possession being nine tenths of the law, a right that is not exercised becomes extinct in law and reality. Laws reflect the reality of situations, otherwise they are repealed.

rawk

good argument.....if titinas loizidou case has not proven that otherwise

[paaul12]

Hi Tony-4497

4497! Gosh there must be a lot of you!

I thought your points were well argued except over the proposed distribution of land according to population, I can't think of any other precedence for this, nor whether current national boundaries in countries all over the world reflect their populations in terms of area.

I don't think the basic issue is over land (I expect quite a few posters to this BB will hit the roof reading that) but recompense, compensation, weregeld... whatever you want to call it. If my family lost land back in 1974 and we have moved and have settled ourselves, our children have grown up and our parents have passed on who left that land, I'm not to sure I want to uproot and go to as place with bad memories. I'd just like a golden handshake and to be able to pass that money on to my children to enable them to buy their own properties in this new Cyprus.

I'm sorry, but the old dream of buying a farm with olive trees, goats and vineyards is gone. My kids want jobs, cars, money, mobile phones, clothes, travel to the UK, USA, Australia to see their relatives. Sure, they will pay homage to the old ways but a lot of us don't want to go back. Its too long and too painful, it would achieve nothing. The land split ratio thing is meaningless.

rawk

I have to say that is one of the most sensible messages I have read on this forum! Someone who actually understands how things work in the real world, with an attitude like that it would be easy to solve the Cprob.

[pumpernickle]

paaul, when you see sensible comments on cyprus forum, you can bet your bottom dollar it's going to be one of those Haley's Comey moments.

People need to listen to the crap that comes from me. Then all would be solved.

Shame is, most members here tend to be rather radical and bigotted. Oh well, just as well I'm here (for now) to kick some ass.

punk ass mo-fos.

[cypezokyli]

Hi Tony-4497

4497! Gosh there must be a lot of you!

I thought your points were well argued except over the proposed distribution of land according to population, I can't think of any other precedence for this, nor whether current national boundaries in countries all over the world reflect their populations in terms of area.

I don't think the basic issue is over land (I expect quite a few posters to this BB will hit the roof reading that) but recompense, compensation, weregeld... whatever you want to call it. If my family lost land back in 1974 and we have moved and have settled ourselves, our children have grown up and our parents have passed on who left that land, I'm not to sure I want to uproot and go to as place with bad memories. I'd just like a golden handshake and to be able to pass that money on to my children to enable them to buy their own properties in this new Cyprus.

I'm sorry, but the old dream of buying a farm with olive trees, goats and vineyards is gone. My kids want jobs, cars, money, mobile phones, clothes, travel to the UK, USA, Australia to see their relatives. Sure, they will pay homage to the old ways but a lot of us don't want to go back. Its too long and too painful, it would achieve nothing. The land split ratio thing is meaningless.

rawk

I have to say that is one of the most sensible messages I have read on this forum! Someone who actually understands how things work in the real world, with an attitude like that it would be easy to solve the Cprob.

with an attitude like that what kind of a solution would you expect ?

[pumpernickle]

A solution of any kind is good Cype, would you not agree. For heaven's sake man!!!!

[cypezokyli]

no. i wouldnot agree.
a solution has to be of the kind, that the majority of the people in both communities agree upon. and for that to happen "any kind" of a solution is not possible. actually a solution lies in some certain clear cut constraints.

taking that into consideration , partition is rejected (do you agree with that ? i dont) just as any attempt to take away the communal rights of the tcs (do you agree with that ? i dont ) . furthermore, a solution needs to guarantee the return of high number of refugees etc etc.

we are not talking about any kind , but about a specific kind.
on the other hand i agree that even the best solution can fail if the two communities dont want to coopearate , and the worst can work if the two communities want to make it work. is that what you meant ? ... bc i am not really sure what you mean..

[Tony-4497]

The land split ratio thing is meaningless.

It may be meaningless to you, but what matters is what is meaningful to a majority of GCs as those are the ones who will be called to approve any solution that in effect Turkey will propose (via the UN/US/UK) in order to get itself out of the difficult situation it is currently in.

GCs are 82% of the population of Cyprus (actually more now) and have ownership of an even greater percentage of the land in Cyprus. Accordingly, if the ideal scenario is not achievable i.e. that of a unitary state with majority rule, the only basis on which they MAY agree to split Cyprus would be one that respects the concept of proportionality.

Anything like the Annan plan is clearly unacceptable. This needs to change. If Turks do not accept to remove the element of sovereignty/segregation of the TC state, then the only area where the plan can be seriously improved for GCs is the land sharing part.

I believe that an Annan-plan type solution (i.e. confederation or even partition) adjusted on the basis of an 80-20 land sharing is the only one realistically feasible solution that both parties could accept in the period before Turkey's EU entry.

If not this, then what? What is your suggestion?