No , madam I'm not taking the piss , you have your inflexible views , you have already decided that there is no future for you in Cyprus either under the ROC or under the Turkish administration.
My beliefs are that Cyprus through out its thousands of years history was always one nation.What bloody right does a foreign nation have to divide and to brainwash you and the likes of you into believing that the Cypriots are different are the same , what separates us is the stupid ideologies that the narrow minded brainwashed individuals on both sides maintain. We are bloody Cypriots , the Turkish Cypriots are my compatriots .The turkish mainlanders and Anatolians as well as the Greek mainlanders are not my compatriots. I AS A CYPRIOT HAVE MORE RIGHTS TO CYPRUS THAT THOSE WHO PRETEND TO BE AND HIDE UNDER THE SKIRTS OF THEIR FOREIGN MOTHERLANDS,THEY SHOULD PISS OFF TO THEIR RESPECTIVE MOTHERLANDS AAP.
How many GC refugees want to go back to their old homes
38 posts
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by Issy1956 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:35 am
Miltiades,
I am not a madam. I am a mister. You are not answering my points. Is the ROC representing and looking after the interests of its TC citizens or not. Its a simple question. I was citing the simple example of the use of the Turkish language to make my point. You have totally ignored the point I was making and gone on to accuse me of beaing brainwashed and inflexible when I point out the failings of the ROC-is criticism not allowed in the ROC?. I want an independent Cyprus with foreign troops (Greek and Turkish) out as much as you do but not at any cost. Yes its true that I was driven out of Cyprus a very long time ago and I dont really envisage a future for me in Cyprus as it stands today but surely I am allowed to hold views as to how we might get to a better situation than the one we have today.
I am not a madam. I am a mister. You are not answering my points. Is the ROC representing and looking after the interests of its TC citizens or not. Its a simple question. I was citing the simple example of the use of the Turkish language to make my point. You have totally ignored the point I was making and gone on to accuse me of beaing brainwashed and inflexible when I point out the failings of the ROC-is criticism not allowed in the ROC?. I want an independent Cyprus with foreign troops (Greek and Turkish) out as much as you do but not at any cost. Yes its true that I was driven out of Cyprus a very long time ago and I dont really envisage a future for me in Cyprus as it stands today but surely I am allowed to hold views as to how we might get to a better situation than the one we have today.
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by andri_cy » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:46 am
Issy everyone is allowed to their views and their dreams. IS the ROC looking after the interests of the TC's? I think maybe they are doing a lot but maybe they could do more. TC's can come from the North and get medical assistance, get Jobs, live if they want. I am wondering(and I dont mean it in a way which is trying to piss all TC's off) what what you like the ROC to be doing more of? Maybe if you ask for something in the end you will get it. If people are all for TRNC and they do not recognize the RoC how can the RoC represent them or look after them in any way? They are living isolated I am sure not 100% by choice and they are governed by a different "government". So why dont the TC's make an effort to tell the RoC what it is they need from them?
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by Issy1956 » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:44 pm
Andri,
What we need more than anything from the ROC is a genuine willingness to compromise and to reach a just and lasting political settlement that is something more than the simple takeover of the North by the ROC that the present regime appears to be trying to achieve.
Believe me when I say that I dont like what I see when I go the North as its just like going to Turkey-no difference and the south is just like Greece we have lost that unique and precious Greco-Turkish Cypriot multicultural mixture that we had that our elders talk of and rightly or wrongly I blame the GC's earlier desire for Enosis for having driven the TC community into the arms of Turkey.
At least if the AP had gone through the TRNC would have been history and we would not have had the massive devlopment that is going on in the North and we could have started to rebuild our joint society again over time. The longer the two communities are apart the less likely this will be-every day that goes by we are cementing partition and I am not happy about that.
You say we can go and live in the South but surely its obvious that the TC are not comfortable with doing that and dont feel a part of that society. A lot of us have abandoned land and property in the ROC and its not simply a matter of living in the north so that we can enjoy the "stolen properties" of the GC refugees. We are refugees ourselves.
Can we vote in the south? Can we get jobs in the civil service or the police. Are we required to serve in the military? In short are we equals as citizens?. Having a job in the south (probably that no GC wants or is willing to do) and getting free medical assistance makes us no better than the Sri Lankans. I am no fan of Rauf Dentash but I think he said something along the lines that Enosis for the TC's was a change of colonial masters for the worse and unfortunately I can see where he is coming from. When feel that we have an equal stake in the ROC as something more than cheap labour then we can consign the TRNC to the dustbin( or trashcan as you might say) of history-otherwise its here to stay. After all I would rather be the master in my own tin pot two bit hovel than the slave in a palace. Would you not agree?
What we need more than anything from the ROC is a genuine willingness to compromise and to reach a just and lasting political settlement that is something more than the simple takeover of the North by the ROC that the present regime appears to be trying to achieve.
Believe me when I say that I dont like what I see when I go the North as its just like going to Turkey-no difference and the south is just like Greece we have lost that unique and precious Greco-Turkish Cypriot multicultural mixture that we had that our elders talk of and rightly or wrongly I blame the GC's earlier desire for Enosis for having driven the TC community into the arms of Turkey.
At least if the AP had gone through the TRNC would have been history and we would not have had the massive devlopment that is going on in the North and we could have started to rebuild our joint society again over time. The longer the two communities are apart the less likely this will be-every day that goes by we are cementing partition and I am not happy about that.
You say we can go and live in the South but surely its obvious that the TC are not comfortable with doing that and dont feel a part of that society. A lot of us have abandoned land and property in the ROC and its not simply a matter of living in the north so that we can enjoy the "stolen properties" of the GC refugees. We are refugees ourselves.
Can we vote in the south? Can we get jobs in the civil service or the police. Are we required to serve in the military? In short are we equals as citizens?. Having a job in the south (probably that no GC wants or is willing to do) and getting free medical assistance makes us no better than the Sri Lankans. I am no fan of Rauf Dentash but I think he said something along the lines that Enosis for the TC's was a change of colonial masters for the worse and unfortunately I can see where he is coming from. When feel that we have an equal stake in the ROC as something more than cheap labour then we can consign the TRNC to the dustbin( or trashcan as you might say) of history-otherwise its here to stay. After all I would rather be the master in my own tin pot two bit hovel than the slave in a palace. Would you not agree?
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by andri_cy » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:43 am
See now thats an answer that gives me an ainsight on what people might want. I agree with most of what you wrote here. I cant tell you how much it pleases me to actually get a straight answer, instead of the usual we want all people to have their human rights crap. It concerns me most what TCs think their immediate needs and wants are and not all that theoritical bullcrap. As I said I am sure the RoC can do more than the medical part and all that. I just wanted to get an idea of what the needs might be.
As far as the TCs going to the south and how they are not comfortable... I dont see why not. We have done it in the past and we can do it again. I dont think things are going to change until people start taking matters into their own hands. Maybe moving to the south, getting a job and a home there and living amongst other Cypriots can prove to the ones that are doubtful on both sides that it can be done and it IS possible. I am sure that if you went to the South and said that you are interested in voting that you would have the right to like any other Cypriot. If not, then that is wrong and we need to know about it-because to be honest I do not know for sure and to say I do it would be a lie. I know also that there are are provisions about police jobs, I just dont know if they were ever enforced because I dont think that any TC's came forth saying they wanted to join. What I am trying to say here is that I am sure that you have lots of rights and benefits to get from the RoC if you wanted to, but with that comes responsibility. If you want to be a citizen of that country you have a responsibility to vote(when I say You I dont mean you personally or you as a TC) otherwise you cant whine if the people that get elected are not of your liking. You have the responsibility to do something about things you dont like or you need to not complain about them. I take myself for example. I live in the US, and I am married. I chose to become a permanent resident but I am not yet a citizen. That was my choice. With that, comes the fact that I cannot go around talking about how bad a president we have when I didnt even make sure I can vote for one. I tell my husband this all the time when he whines about leadership:" if you hadnt slept all day because it was your day off and you had gone to vote for the president then it might have been different. Especially when others just like you did the same" He doesnt like me when I say that
. Anyway, I think I am going on and on. I hope I was able to convey things the way I actually meant them.
As far as the TCs going to the south and how they are not comfortable... I dont see why not. We have done it in the past and we can do it again. I dont think things are going to change until people start taking matters into their own hands. Maybe moving to the south, getting a job and a home there and living amongst other Cypriots can prove to the ones that are doubtful on both sides that it can be done and it IS possible. I am sure that if you went to the South and said that you are interested in voting that you would have the right to like any other Cypriot. If not, then that is wrong and we need to know about it-because to be honest I do not know for sure and to say I do it would be a lie. I know also that there are are provisions about police jobs, I just dont know if they were ever enforced because I dont think that any TC's came forth saying they wanted to join. What I am trying to say here is that I am sure that you have lots of rights and benefits to get from the RoC if you wanted to, but with that comes responsibility. If you want to be a citizen of that country you have a responsibility to vote(when I say You I dont mean you personally or you as a TC) otherwise you cant whine if the people that get elected are not of your liking. You have the responsibility to do something about things you dont like or you need to not complain about them. I take myself for example. I live in the US, and I am married. I chose to become a permanent resident but I am not yet a citizen. That was my choice. With that, comes the fact that I cannot go around talking about how bad a president we have when I didnt even make sure I can vote for one. I tell my husband this all the time when he whines about leadership:" if you hadnt slept all day because it was your day off and you had gone to vote for the president then it might have been different. Especially when others just like you did the same" He doesnt like me when I say that
. Anyway, I think I am going on and on. I hope I was able to convey things the way I actually meant them.-
andri_cy - Regular Contributor
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by Svetlana » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:24 pm
Refugees seeking cash from north’s property commission
By Elias Hazou
THE MAJORITY of displaced Greek Cypriots seeking redress in the north for loss of properties after the invasion are opting out of returning to their homes and going for the cash.
At least this is the conclusion drawn from the claims made before the ‘property commission’ set up in the north last March. If accepted as legitimate by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), the body could be handling Greek Cypriot applications for the reinstatement of properties in the north.
The establishment of the commission came after the ECHR last December handed the baton to Turkey to find a way of offering redress to Greek Cypriot Myra Xenides-Arestis, who lost her property in Varosha during the 1974 Turkish invasion. Turkey accepted the challenge and has in turn given the Turkish Cypriot authorities – as its ‘subordinate local authority’ – the task of delivering justice on Greek Cypriot property claims.
In making the ruling, the ECHR effectively adjourned around 1,400 Greek Cypriot applications, pending a later decision on whether the Turkish Cypriot property commission truly fits the criteria spelled out by the ECHR.
The court gave Turkey and the breakaway regime six months in which to provide “effective domestic remedies” for Greek Cypriot refugees’ property claims.
Its judgment read: “Turkey should introduce a remedy, within three months, which secures, in respect of the Convention violations identified in the judgment, genuinely effective redress for the applicant as well as in relation to all similar applications (approximately 1,400) pending before the Court.”
The deadline for assessing Turkey’s compliance expires on June 22.
In the south, the initial reaction to the court’s ruling was mixed. Some felt the onus was now on Turkey, while others warned Ankara would get off the hook by simply feigning to provide redress.
Yet others worry that the solution of the Cyprus problem might boil down to an ad hoc exchange of properties and payouts.
But according to daily Politis, most of the Greek Cypriot refugees (around 10) who have turned to the commission are asking for monetary compensation for their lands.
What’s more, they are waiving any claim for non-use of their properties since 1974. And in some cases the claimants are settling for amounts that fall well short of the real value of their property.
Without naming names, the paper mentioned the case of a refugee from Kyrenia who has given up on returning to his property, even though he is entitled to. His tract of land does not ‘belong’ to a Turkish Cypriot, nor has any development taken place on it. Yet the man simply wants a cash settlement.
Another Greek Cypriot is the owner of six donums of real estate in the occupied part of Nicosia. The Bayrak television station now lies on it. According to Politis, the owner did not even bother filing for restitution, knowing he stood no chance of winning – the ‘property law’ enacted by the breakaway regime excludes public utilities buildings and ‘national interest’ facilities from undergoing a change in ownership.
Undeterred, the practical-minded owner went for compensation, asking for some £300,000. The paper commented that he could have got a lot more for the land, suggesting the person was desperate to close the deal and raise some cash.
Meanwhile a Greek Cypriot currently living in Britain and filing a claim has also opted for a cheque, even though the commission informed him that he was entitled to having his property returned to him. The man is reportedly asking for £2 million.
Press reports said that in the coming days the commission is set to announce its decisions on eight cases, so that it can then present itself to the ECHR as an effective “domestic legal means” that resolves property claims.
Speaking off the record, legal sources told the Mail yesterday that the court was unlikely to take into account these actions, because the whole affair hinged on the handling of the pilot case – Arestis.
And Achilleas Demetriades, the lawyer of Arestis, yesterday said that he would be filing his observations to the ECHR on June 21.
As the other litigant, Turkey will also be presenting its own observations to the court on that date.
As widely predicted, Arestis has not taken recourse to, nor had any contact with, the property commission.
“One should bear in mind that Turkey has to restore full access and use of property to Mrs Arestis… we are waiting to see whether Turkey honours its obligations,” Demetriades told the Mail.
He said he was not worried by the argument that his side did nothing to promote its claim.
“That does not concern us. The question is what Turkey has or has not done,” he insisted.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006
By Elias Hazou
THE MAJORITY of displaced Greek Cypriots seeking redress in the north for loss of properties after the invasion are opting out of returning to their homes and going for the cash.
At least this is the conclusion drawn from the claims made before the ‘property commission’ set up in the north last March. If accepted as legitimate by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), the body could be handling Greek Cypriot applications for the reinstatement of properties in the north.
The establishment of the commission came after the ECHR last December handed the baton to Turkey to find a way of offering redress to Greek Cypriot Myra Xenides-Arestis, who lost her property in Varosha during the 1974 Turkish invasion. Turkey accepted the challenge and has in turn given the Turkish Cypriot authorities – as its ‘subordinate local authority’ – the task of delivering justice on Greek Cypriot property claims.
In making the ruling, the ECHR effectively adjourned around 1,400 Greek Cypriot applications, pending a later decision on whether the Turkish Cypriot property commission truly fits the criteria spelled out by the ECHR.
The court gave Turkey and the breakaway regime six months in which to provide “effective domestic remedies” for Greek Cypriot refugees’ property claims.
Its judgment read: “Turkey should introduce a remedy, within three months, which secures, in respect of the Convention violations identified in the judgment, genuinely effective redress for the applicant as well as in relation to all similar applications (approximately 1,400) pending before the Court.”
The deadline for assessing Turkey’s compliance expires on June 22.
In the south, the initial reaction to the court’s ruling was mixed. Some felt the onus was now on Turkey, while others warned Ankara would get off the hook by simply feigning to provide redress.
Yet others worry that the solution of the Cyprus problem might boil down to an ad hoc exchange of properties and payouts.
But according to daily Politis, most of the Greek Cypriot refugees (around 10) who have turned to the commission are asking for monetary compensation for their lands.
What’s more, they are waiving any claim for non-use of their properties since 1974. And in some cases the claimants are settling for amounts that fall well short of the real value of their property.
Without naming names, the paper mentioned the case of a refugee from Kyrenia who has given up on returning to his property, even though he is entitled to. His tract of land does not ‘belong’ to a Turkish Cypriot, nor has any development taken place on it. Yet the man simply wants a cash settlement.
Another Greek Cypriot is the owner of six donums of real estate in the occupied part of Nicosia. The Bayrak television station now lies on it. According to Politis, the owner did not even bother filing for restitution, knowing he stood no chance of winning – the ‘property law’ enacted by the breakaway regime excludes public utilities buildings and ‘national interest’ facilities from undergoing a change in ownership.
Undeterred, the practical-minded owner went for compensation, asking for some £300,000. The paper commented that he could have got a lot more for the land, suggesting the person was desperate to close the deal and raise some cash.
Meanwhile a Greek Cypriot currently living in Britain and filing a claim has also opted for a cheque, even though the commission informed him that he was entitled to having his property returned to him. The man is reportedly asking for £2 million.
Press reports said that in the coming days the commission is set to announce its decisions on eight cases, so that it can then present itself to the ECHR as an effective “domestic legal means” that resolves property claims.
Speaking off the record, legal sources told the Mail yesterday that the court was unlikely to take into account these actions, because the whole affair hinged on the handling of the pilot case – Arestis.
And Achilleas Demetriades, the lawyer of Arestis, yesterday said that he would be filing his observations to the ECHR on June 21.
As the other litigant, Turkey will also be presenting its own observations to the court on that date.
As widely predicted, Arestis has not taken recourse to, nor had any contact with, the property commission.
“One should bear in mind that Turkey has to restore full access and use of property to Mrs Arestis… we are waiting to see whether Turkey honours its obligations,” Demetriades told the Mail.
He said he was not worried by the argument that his side did nothing to promote its claim.
“That does not concern us. The question is what Turkey has or has not done,” he insisted.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2006
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by Kikapu » Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:55 pm
The longer the division remains in place, the more the chance it becoming permanent. People want to stay where they are, which has been their and their childrens home for the past 32 years and to some even longer, and get compensation for their past properties in the Northern and Southern part of Cyprus. The owners are getting old and loosing faith in their leaders to find a solution, so why not get the cash and invest it in their childrens future. Hopefully, this will pave the way for all Cypriots to be compensated and have the "Green Line" removed, so that everyone can move freely to enjoy their country, by the mojority of Cypriots living in their own areas respectively. Then it will be easier to form a political solution as to how to run the country to benefit all. In time, the island will find it's own level, as far as the two communities inter-mingling with each other.
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by despo » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:27 pm
Miltiades, that's all very nice, to say I love all Cypriots, regardless of whether they are Greek or Turk. But, obviously you have no sense of the realities on the island and no understanding of the constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. First of all, as things are now, the two communities are totally divided. They are not going to be brought together by a "solution" whereby the Turkish Cypriots have no political rights as a separate community at all. In any case, this goes against the constitution of the Republic of Cyprus whereby the GCs and TCs were two separate political communities who voted separately and for different representatives and who had diferrent rights outlined in the constitution. This is also why there were two separate referenda for the UN plan, because the UN recognises that there are two political communities on the island. Secondly, you are completely ignoring the official Greek Cypriot position of support for a bizonal, bicommunal federation. Do you really believe that Greek Cypriots are going to achieve a settlement through the EU and UN that is in total contradiction to our stated political goal of the past 30 years?
And, if you can't understand that Tassos Papadopoulos has nothing to do with the Turkish Cypriots and in absolutely no way does he represent them, then, my dear Miltiaides, there is something seriously wrong with your political thinking. I mean, do you really believe that the current Greek government of the Republic of Cyprus represents the political will and interests of the Turkish Cypriots? How many TCs voted for this government?
And, if you can't understand that Tassos Papadopoulos has nothing to do with the Turkish Cypriots and in absolutely no way does he represent them, then, my dear Miltiaides, there is something seriously wrong with your political thinking. I mean, do you really believe that the current Greek government of the Republic of Cyprus represents the political will and interests of the Turkish Cypriots? How many TCs voted for this government?
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by Viewpoint » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:28 pm
Issy1956 wrote:Andri,
What we need more than anything from the ROC is a genuine willingness to compromise and to reach a just and lasting political settlement that is something more than the simple takeover of the North by the ROC that the present regime appears to be trying to achieve.
Believe me when I say that I dont like what I see when I go the North as its just like going to Turkey-no difference and the south is just like Greece we have lost that unique and precious Greco-Turkish Cypriot multicultural mixture that we had that our elders talk of and rightly or wrongly I blame the GC's earlier desire for Enosis for having driven the TC community into the arms of Turkey.
At least if the AP had gone through the TRNC would have been history and we would not have had the massive devlopment that is going on in the North and we could have started to rebuild our joint society again over time. The longer the two communities are apart the less likely this will be-every day that goes by we are cementing partition and I am not happy about that.
You say we can go and live in the South but surely its obvious that the TC are not comfortable with doing that and dont feel a part of that society. A lot of us have abandoned land and property in the ROC and its not simply a matter of living in the north so that we can enjoy the "stolen properties" of the GC refugees. We are refugees ourselves.
Can we vote in the south? Can we get jobs in the civil service or the police. Are we required to serve in the military? In short are we equals as citizens?. Having a job in the south (probably that no GC wants or is willing to do) and getting free medical assistance makes us no better than the Sri Lankans. I am no fan of Rauf Dentash but I think he said something along the lines that Enosis for the TC's was a change of colonial masters for the worse and unfortunately I can see where he is coming from. When feel that we have an equal stake in the ROC as something more than cheap labour then we can consign the TRNC to the dustbin( or trashcan as you might say) of history-otherwise its here to stay. After all I would rather be the master in my own tin pot two bit hovel than the slave in a palace. Would you not agree?
Great post Issy hope GCs at least try to understand and acknowledge your arguements. A lot of what we post just goes over their heads.
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