Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

The reason why TCs don't have rights anymore is because they chose to give them up and illegally form their own state. Now because they are living in intenational isolation and poverty maybe the RoC deems its not enough for them to just come back like that, unless the issue is resolved.

IMO, maybe the RoC should offer some benefits to TCs but I guess it only makes sense that you can't have elected TC officials in the RoC when the TCs have decided to illegally breakway. What is your opinion?

Who decided that we do not have rights anymore? GCs?

How convenient!!I guess we will have to start by suing the legality of that decision first.

Anyway let's not get sidetracked here. The subject of the topic is how to claim our rights from 1960 constitution.

If let's say, 50k turned back to south, and with the original TC living in north before 1974 (who are clearly not using any stolen property) should form their community and starat applying for their rights. If your constitution did not change, (and you claim that it did not change) then your courts should uphold our rights, otherwise what they are doing it simply illegal.

And this opens the route for TCs to look after themselves in other legal venues, like Louzidiou.

[turkcyp]

Dear friends (TCs and GCs alike),

The subject of the topic is basically expressed in the first post. The point is not if RoC should give our rights back without solution or if Turkey should recognize RoC without solution. The point is I believe none of this is going to happen. Recently I am starting to belive that it suits both GCs and Turkeys interests to wait and not to solve the Cyprus problem before Turkey's entry date to EU.

This conclsuion is based on two facts, (and in the future circumstances can change to warant different actions from either GC or Turkey).

1. RoC is an EU member, and they will use this to the latest extent to force Turkey to achieve the kind of solution they want in Cyprus (i.e unitary states, with no defined communities and a relationship of a majority and minority)

2. Turkey really wants to become a part of EU, and will not give up its Cyprus card until the day she becomes a member in fear of being rejected at the last minute. (Especially after this week's experience where EU is coming with all sorts of new conditions to slow Turkey's accesion) For instance France has decided to put Turkey' membership to referandum before Turkey joins. Who can guarantee that Turkey will be a member, even if everything goes like Turkey planned until the last minute.

So this leaves us only one scenario. Turkey's EU accesion and solution of Cyprus problem can only happen simultaneously. And I believe when that day comes, if no other member rejects Turkey before hand, then Turkey will be willing to recognize to RoC as it is right now, just to eliminate their veto, and be a member.

This scenraio basically leaves TCs out in the cold with their all rights from 1960 constituiton eliminated. The idea is if we are to find a solution to Cyprus problem then it should not be worse than 1960 constitution both for TCs and GCs. And this scenario is definetly much much worse for TCs.

So in the meantime, if majority of the TCs start believing the above scenario, then the only logical option for them is to turn back to RoC and claim their rights from 1960 constitution. And if not granted, then they shoul dpursue other legal venues.

The idea is to GUARANTEE our rights from 1960 constitution, (becaue right now they are not guaranteed) not to USE them before solution. If we can find a solution and is accepted in both sides, then it is because it is better than 1960 constitution. If not then we should be able to keep our rights from 1960 constituion.

Have a good day everybody,

[brother]

I ASK AGAIN DO YOU REPRESENT THE WHOLE ISLAND?

IF YES THEN WILL YOU RESTORE THE TC RIGHTS IN THE ROC?

IF NOT ARE YOU AWARE YOU ARE BREAKING THE E.U LAWS OF DEMOCRASY AND HUMAN RIGHTS?

WHO IS BRAVE ENOUGH TO ANSWER TRUTHFULLY

[magikthrill]

I ASK AGAIN DO YOU REPRESENT THE WHOLE ISLAND?

IF YES THEN WILL YOU RESTORE THE TC RIGHTS IN THE ROC?

IF NOT ARE YOU AWARE YOU ARE BREAKING THE E.U LAWS OF DEMOCRASY AND HUMAN RIGHTS?

WHO IS BRAVE ENOUGH TO ANSWER TRUTHFULLY

Temper, temper dude.

I personally don't represent the whole island but internationally the unoccupied part of Cyprus represents the whole island, yes.

Since the RoC is illegally occupied, the rights will be restored when the occupation is over. You cannot offer a criminal any rights if he/she is still performing illegal actions. In fact, criminals are usually punished, but since GCs aren't as hateful as other cultures, the TCs probably won't be punished after the occupation is over. It's as simple as that.

Since we are restoring the rights then we are not breaking laws of democracy or human rights. THE NORTH IS DOING THAT, IN CASE YOU WERE UNAWARE

That's the truthful answer and no bravery is required. Just intelligence.

[brother]

Stop twisting it, the answer is you cannot claim to represent someone then deny them their fundemental rights, the tc did not start the partition the greek inspired junta to achieve enosis did, the partition happened to stop the ethnic cleansing of the tc, after that turkey decided to keep it this way not the tc, but do not get me wrong noone was challenging turkey because you made us suffer.

Now you say that we are criminals, what a load of rubbish you are the ones who choose to oppress the tc, make us secound class citizens, push us into enclaves to protect us from you, and then pretend you are the legal owners of cyprus, well wake up my friend this is not true it is co-owned by two communities, and when we say o.k lets return to the ROC you say 'no' only when a solution comes.

O.K you lot in the south pretend you are the legal owners of cyprus and while you are at it also pretend that you are democratic and follow human rights but we in the north know you are just fooling yourselves and nobody else.

The way you lot are acting we will NEVER agree to any terms with you and yes we have turkey behind us and its tanks and its 40,000+ troops and much more only a few miles away, what have you got an illegal goverment that pretends to rule all of cyprus and a weak E.U on the verge of collapse.

I use to believe in the cypriots but people like you and your fake goverment constantly remind me that you are just pretending to like us or accept us as partners just until you find another angle to seize cyprus in its entirity, but guess what we are not stupid and history and previous actions by GC have taught us to be wary of you, and your blackmail that no rights for tc until solution just confirms all this.

[Piratis]

The idea is to GUARANTEE our rights from 1960 constitution, (becaue right now they are not guaranteed) not to USE them before solution. If we can find a solution and is accepted in both sides, then it is because it is better than 1960 constitution. If not then we should be able to keep our rights from 1960 constitution.

Your rights are 100% guaranteed. Part of them (the super privileges) are simply suspended until a solution is found. The thing that stops you from getting what is agreed in 1960 is the occupation. The end of occupation will automatically mean that you get back all your rights according to 1960 constitution.

However, while the occupation exists, some of the TC rights in RoC will be suspended and there is no real way of going around this.

[magikthrill]

Stop twisting it, the answer is you cannot claim to represent someone then deny them their fundemental rights, the tc did not start the partition the greek inspired junta to achieve enosis did, the partition happened to stop the ethnic cleansing of the tc, after that turkey decided to keep it this way not the tc, but do not get me wrong noone was challenging turkey because you made us suffer.

ok, first of all. I was born in 1984, way after TCs and GCs were at arms. Second of all I've never lived in Cyprus. So please don't use "you" but instead "GCs"

secondly, maybe you are in denial about who made whom suffer my friend. both sides had their fare shair in destroying each other. again TCs are not the only victims.

Now you say that we are criminals, what a load of rubbish you are the ones who choose to oppress the tc, make us secound class citizens, push us into enclaves to protect us from you, and then pretend you are the legal owners of cyprus, well wake up my friend this is not true it is co-owned by two communities, and when we say o.k lets return to the ROC you say 'no' only when a solution comes.

Please read my posts more carefully. I didn't say you were criminals. I compared you to criminals, since both northern cyprus and criminals perform illegal actions (you know occupied territory, refusing the right of refugees to return etc.)

O.K you lot in the south pretend you are the legal owners of cyprus and while you are at it also pretend that you are democratic and follow human rights but we in the north know you are just fooling yourselves and nobody else.

Well if Cypriots are "fooling" people they seem to be doing a good job, seeing as the entire international community agrees that it is Turkey illegally occupying.

The way you lot are acting we will NEVER agree to any terms with you and yes we have turkey behind us and its tanks and its 40,000+ troops and much more only a few miles away, what have you got an illegal goverment that pretends to rule all of cyprus and a weak E.U on the verge of collapse.

The EU is on the verge of collapse? Hahahhaa. You know what, maybe it's better if you stay in that bubble of yours where:
a) the RoC is illegal
b)the TCs are the only victims of 74
c) the EU is on the verge of collapse

I use to believe in the cypriots but people like you and your fake goverment constantly remind me that you are just pretending to like us or accept us as partners just until you find another angle to seize cyprus in its entirity, but guess what we are not stupid and history and previous actions by GC have taught us to be wary of you, and your blackmail that no rights for tc until solution just confirms all this.

So, how's the weather in that bubble of yours?

[turkcyp]

You cannot offer a criminal any rights if he/she is still performing illegal actions. In fact, criminals are usually punished, but since GCs aren't as hateful as other cultures, the TCs probably won't be punished after the occupation is over. It's as simple as that.

You are all full of it.

As I have explained to Piratis, you guys should first decide who is the occupying force on the island. If it is
a)Turkey, b) TCs or c) both.

If your answer is TCs or both. Then under any legal country, (you claim that you are) there are procedures that you can proove somebody guilty. You as a goverment can not suddenly decide that a community as a whole in your island is criminal.

Firts you have to have a fair trial. And furthemore you have to do it on the individual basis. You cannot simply lump all the TCs together and say that you are occupying and criminal. That is completley against every notion of superiority of law.

For example: By saying that all TCs are criminals tehrefore they have no rights, you are even puting this basket the TCs that used to live in north before occupation, and therefore are not occupying any land, and therefore in your terms should be innocent. Most of these people never faught against anybody. Never occupied any land. Basically did nothing wrong according to you. And in fact according to your definition, these people are suffering most, because they are still living under occupation, unlike the GCs because at least they have moved and are not living under occupation. So there are no cahrges you can levy on these people.

But without feeling the need to have them fair trial, you are simply lumping them with the rest of the group and declaring them criminal and denying them their constitutional rights.

I do not know what it like from your end, but from their end what it looks like is you are just hypocrat who likes the idea of human rights and superiotity of law, only when it suits your desires.

Anyway after being in this forum for 20 days, I sincerely started to belive that we can not have a true ever lasting peace with GCs. Because they didn't have, do not have, and probably will never have good intentions against TCs.

Have a great life,

[Piratis]

Turkcyp,

As I told you before you want the whole pie and your dog fed at the same time.

You want both the occupation to continue and at the same time to share the rest of Cyprus with us.

I agree that some innocent TCs are victimized from all these, the same way that the innocent GCs are victimized. The same way that a GC has the legal right to live in his home but he is not allowed to, the same way a TC has some of his rights suspended as well.

My family is not refugees. When the refugees came, the government took a lot of land from my grandfather to built homes for refugees. And since then we have paid a lot of money to support the refugees. Could we say: "Hey, we are innocent, why should we pay all these?" No, we couldn't say this.

Unfortunately innocents or not we all had to pay a cost, and we are still paying for it. This includes the TCs.

So Turkcyp, what you are complaining for is simply your part of the cost you have to pay for the invasion like we all do. You shouldn't complain to RoC about it. You should complain to Turkey, because their invasion and their occupation are whats causing this abnormal and illegal situation in Cyprus today.

Are you ready to join as to go against Turkey so we can all take back what legally belongs to us?

[insan]

You should complain to Turkey, because their invasion and their occupation are whats causing this abnormal and illegal situation in Cyprus today.

No.. this is because of Hellen's ruling and leading elites insistence of making the Cyprus a Hellen controlled Island. This is because of Hellen's ruling and leading elites insistence of making TCs a minority with some so-called privileages... but do know that TCs don't want to live in a Cyprus controlled by untrustworthy Hellen ruling and leading elites... Nevertheless TCs also don't want to live in a sperate state controlled by untrustworty Turkish ruling and leadin elites. The fact is that TC prefer to struggle against one truoble maker(untrustworthy Turkish ruling and leading elites) instead of 2 or more(Hellen's ruling and leading elites and Eorupeans)...