Cyprus-Forum.com

[G.Man]

Turkey called it a "serious blow" to relations and has threatened sanctions.

OK, this might be a stupid question. But what meaningful sanctions could Turkey impose on Europe?

Last year Turkey traded with France to the tune of 4 1/2 billion pounds.

All renault meganes other than the hatchback are built in renaults plant in turkey as well..

Makes me chuckle when I see so many driving around cyprus...

[VEX8]

Can I ask what makes a Genocide? Is it the way the victims are targeted by ethnicity rather that Nationality or is it the numbers of a particular 'people' that are killed? Is this what we now ( far too easily) call Ethnic Cleansing?

And does anyone here actually know the facts surrounding this alleged Genocide? Can you post them for us?
Did this terrible event actually happen?
I must admit that until reading this i was ignorant to the whole event, not because of who the victims and perpetrators were but more because it took place during and shortly after (?) the First World War, a despicable chapter in world history where millions of men were sent to their needless deaths simply because of the whims of the upper classes, a dark time of history i no little about.

[zan]

Can I ask what makes a Genocide? Is it the way the victims are targeted by ethnicity rather that Nationality or is it the numbers of a particular 'people' that are killed? Is this what we now ( far too easily) call Ethnic Cleansing?

And does anyone here actually know the facts surrounding this alleged Genocide? Can you post them for us?
Did this terrible event actually happen?
I must admit that until reading this i was ignorant to the whole event, not because of who the victims and perpetrators were but more because it took place during and shortly after (?) the First World War, a despicable chapter in world history where millions of men were sent to their needless deaths simply because of the whims of the upper classes, a dark time of history i no little about.

VEX8

Just Google "Armenian genocide", you will get so much on it it will make your head spin. Good luck.

[VEX8]

Blimey.

So what is Turkeys justification for denying the slaughter ever happend?

'We say it didn't happen so everyone else is lying'?

Is that the strength of it?

[andri_cy]

I don't so much think they deny they died. I think they denying it being a targeted possibly premeditated act. But I am just a person and I might be wrong.

[VEX8]

So yet again this is another case in history of Who Can You Believe???

From what i have read on the subject it could have been nothing more than a targeted eradication of a 'people'.

The whole episode seems so familiar.

Or is someone goin to tell me that what i have read is biased and that all it was was a missunderstanding?

[andri_cy]

I am sorry if that is what you thought I meant. I was saying that is the logic behind denying it. Not that it was right.

[cypezokyli]

So yet again this is another case in history of Who Can You Believe???

From what i have read on the subject it could have been nothing more than a targeted eradication of a 'people'.

The whole episode seems so familiar.

Or is someone goin to tell me that what i have read is biased and that all it was was a missunderstanding?

most of the sources you will read will in any case be biased . especially turkish and armenian ones. even if you choose to read someone without a turkish or armenian name, you are not safe either. the armenian lobby is one of the strongest ones. and turkey supports a number of turkish studies abroad

my opinion (without having studied that much...so it is also biased )
the armenians tend to forget that they revolted , and revolutions inevitably lead to them being crashed by empires. that is what empires do.

the turks on the other hand, never gave a satisfactory answer as to why suddenly there were no more armenians in a region that used to be over a million. they kept silent for many years and were never interested really in any dialogue. some progressive turks today are in favor of dialogue or have accepted that killings took place (nationalist deny even that!) , but in generally do not accept the term genocide. so any serious debate evolves around :

- the number of deaths.
- if deaths were all a concequence of killing. (even in that case there is the claim of forced starvation)
- if there was an intention from the ottoman state to make a genocide (difficult to prove)
- and concequently (considering all the above) if the term (that was invented after 1945) genocide applies to this case.

[zan]

cypezokyli

In the case of the starvation i think you may be referring to the death marches. In the book I read, the regiment in the Ottoman Empire that was responsible for guarding the Armenians on these marches consisted totally of Kurds. The Armenians and Kurds were fiercest of enemies and many were in fact killed and robbed not long after the marches got under way as revenge for what the Armenians had done to the Kurds. There was always tit for tat killings in these cases. The rest of the survivors on these marches were indeed treated terribly and many did starve. I have no idea what the numbers are in these cases and it could be argued that the Ottomans used this conflict between theses two factions to achieve its' aims.

[Swashbuckler]

TURKEY v ARMENIANS,
TURKEY V CYPRIOTS - Gcs V TCs actually
TURKEY V KURDISTAN - dont be ignorant, more Kurds in W Anatolia than in the ETURKEY V ASIAN MINOR -How can somebody be versus a land mass?TURKEY V FRANCE - Not since 1922 when Turks ejected the French from Asia Minor
TURKEY V. (RECENT PAST) GREECE - When Greece invaded Asia Minor, BULGARIA - When?, RUSSIA - When?, SYRIA - When?, IRAQ - When? ETC


WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS TURKISH NATION?