Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

Erol,
First of all I replied to a person who clearly presented a one sided story, and I had no other option than to present him/her the other side.You know I personally know more than that. Anyway since you like to stick your nose in my discussions while you know very well my stance, heres my reply:

Because by that period the GC amdinistration had pretty much acheived what they always wanted. TC had been removed from the government - Turkey had been held at bay.

And what was that achievement?The return of most TCs back to their villages and to their government jobs? The success of the Akritas plan like you said? Read the Akritas Plan it talks for sudden wide scale action that would lead to Enosis within a few days! It does never talk for a calm down.

If the dead on each side was numericaly equal then that represents 4 times as much death proprtionaly for the TC community.

That's right! It also represents proportinately 4 times more damage done by each TC to the GCs.In other words each TC fanatic would kill 4 times more innocent GCs !

Yeah thats right we all got given for free three houses each! What tosh!

You were not here in 74 so ask those who were here to inform you.Did anyone wait to get a licence to grap whatever he liked? And please next time answer to my point, was that a situation of a refugee camp?

So do you accept that the GC refugees are today not 'refugees' in the sense of the picture you paint above?

What an interesting plunge into deep meanings when it suits you. Yes they are still refugees. The "sense" or "No-sense" that you are talking about is just they are not living in the same miserable conditions as they were in 1974. But yes they are still refugees in their own Country.

The fact is money poured into South Cyprus after 74. Who was pouring money into the TC community when they were living as refugees in the period 63-67 (and after for some)?

Is this supposed to be an argument? Erol you have nothing else to say than compare who suffered more and who got more sardines in a tin? It is a fact however that the TC refugees were getting some basic aid from Red Cross and the UN like our refugees. The problem however is not that.The problem is why they became refugees on the first place. I never said the 25,000 TC refugees deserved it, I never said the 200,000 GCs deserved it either.

Of course it is not the first time I notice your jealousy of the fact that the GC refugees got aid in 1974. May I inform you that although that aid you read here and there is estimated in terms of money, there is no need to be jealous because it was nothing more thatn Tents, blankets, and tons of sardines in tins. To make it clearer to you the refugees did not receive any cash.

It makes me sick hearing some TCs saying "you got aid from abroad- we want our share of it".

[magikthrill]

well mitacyp

maybe if TCs were to get some tents blankets and sardines in tins, they'd have more than they do now. seeing as most of the houses they are occupying arent theirs.

[brother]

I wish all my fellow TC who are to take part in this mass demo lots of good luck.

[brother]

Firstly can i say i am sick of hearing piratis call innocent tc thieves and may i remind him of the GC thieves at the moment occupying TC homes and lands and the THIEVING ROC GOVERMENT that sells it self as legitimate but holds TC property hostage.

Before all you bright sparks start attacking me, facts are facts and currently on my family lands two very large restaurants stand and have been there for 30 years.

[MicAtCyp]

And for your information, I have lost family during the
1974 'peace operation'. My grandfather died a broken
man, without knowing the fate of his son. He suffered
for 20 years. We only recently found out he was killed
by a bomb dropped by a Turkish plane on a truck he was
travelling in.

My sympathy for that Mikkie, and to all other people GC or TC who lost their beloved ones.

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

The point I was trying to put across was that the TC leadership were doing their utmost to further the aim of Taksim by manipulating the ordinary TC's. The mass exodus of people was spontaneous as suggested by the articles but their spontaneous return was largely cut short by the actions of TMT and TC leadership in order to further their aims.

And this is exactly the sort of manipulation the majority of GC people were experiencing by EOKA and other militants as well. Because of the actions and aims of a few hundred people on each side we have this whole bloody mess being created and causing so much pain and sufferring.

The cyprus-conflict web site is just an information site. If your read much of this site there is conflicting information and its largely up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. It is very easy to selectively take snippets from this site and make it support either one side or the other.

What matters now is how we move forward and create a UNIFIED Cyprus. That means people on both sides need to accept the events of the past and start to build trust between the two communities again. Unfortuntely the majority of TC politicians still fail to take hold of some obvious overtures to bring about this situation, instead choosing to make every GC suggestion or action as propaganda. What we have is Talat making scathing attacks on the GC leadership all the time. What good does that do? How do you think GC's take this when they see the TC leadership making such attacks all the time?

[erolz]

Erol,

The point I was trying to put across was that the TC leadership were doing their utmost to further the aim of Taksim by manipulating the ordinary TC's. The mass exodus of people was spontaneous as suggested by the articles but their spontaneous return was largely cut short by the actions of TMT and TC leadership in order to further their aims.

I do not dispute or doubt there is much truth in this. This is very different however from the claims that TC make themselves refugees as part of some plan they had to achieve divsion of the island. They became refugees because of organised violence from the larger and stronger GC commuinty against them. The TC leadership and TMT certainly played a significant part in keeping them refugees, but they did not make them refugees in the first place.

And this is exactly the sort of manipulation the majority of GC people were experiencing by EOKA and other militants as well. Because of the actions and aims of a few hundred people on each side we have this whole bloody mess being created and causing so much pain and sufferring.

I am sorry but I do not find this thesis of responsibility laying with a few hundred 'instigators' and everyone else being a 'passive led / victim' unconvincing as far as an an explanation of what happened. Certainly there were instigators and led, but the relationship between the two is not a simple one. I personaly think this issue is one that we must understand better if we are to avoid the mistakes of the past. I believe the mass of ordinary cypriots on each side had the power to resist these 'few hundred' instigators. It seems to me it is vital we understand why they failed to do this. I would refer to my previous thread - mary midgley's wickedness.

The cyprus-conflict web site is just an information site. If your read much of this site there is conflicting information and its largely up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. It is very easy to selectively take snippets from this site and make it support either one side or the other.

I generally agree with you. I do think however that taking snippets from this site is a (significant) step forward from simply reciting either sides officical versions (propoaganda).

What matters now is how we move forward and create a UNIFIED Cyprus.

I agree that we need to move forward. I hope that this can towards a solution that can in time lead to a true united cyprus. I fear however that it is not within our 'will' to create such a settlement at this time. I also think that we can not drag this conflict on for much longer. There has to be a solution and closure soon. If that means division then that is a sad result but better than no settlement at all.

That means people on both sides need to accept the events of the past and start to build trust between the two communities again.

I agree that this is necessary. I just do not see much of it happening on either side. As far as the GC side goes I see from the 'top' statments that no TC was killed by GC in the period 63-74 through to indivudals on this site claiming that TC made themselves refugees, that the whole issue is one of TC being theives and they divided cyprus so that they could steal from GC and other such vies that both deny the past and do nothing to build trust. Things are little different the other way round either.

Unfortuntely the majority of TC politicians still fail to take hold of some obvious overtures to bring about this situation, instead choosing to make every GC suggestion or action as propaganda.

Well both sides see each others motives with much suspcision and the fact is there are good reasons for this being the case.

What we have is Talat making scathing attacks on the GC leadership all the time. What good does that do? How do you think GC's take this when they see the TC leadership making such attacks all the time?

Do you think any of his attacks where as damaging to future hopes of reconcillation as Papadoulus' statement that I mentioned earlier?

On this theme do you consider that Papadopolus was one of the 'few hundred' you mentioned before in relation to being the 'cause' of our mutual grief and suffering? I would have to say even if I accpeted your thesis of a 'few hundred' (which I do not) then for me there is little doubt that Papadopolus was part of this 'few hundred'?