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by **ARMENIAN CYPRIOT** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:42 am

TC I dont excpect you to believe your race commited Genocide, hell it would be like you trying to force me to believe Genocide occured to TCS or Azeris. I am am sure alot of them died but there was rebellions in those areas so that makes the murder of innocent civilians ok, correct?? Just because one is a civillian in a war zone its to bad. Thats pretty much what I am getting from what you have written. Did Armenians serve in the Russian Army?? Yes part of Armenia was occupied by them. They also served in the Greek, Bulgarian, British and French Military big deal. Those punished were civilians that had nothing to do with that fact.

http://www.genocide1915.info/

by **T_C** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:10 pm

ARMENIAN CYPRIOT wrote:TC I dont excpect you to believe your race commited Genocide, hell it would be like you trying to force me to believe Genocide occured to TCS or Azeris. I am am sure alot of them died but there was rebellions in those areas so that makes the murder of innocent civilians ok, correct?? Just because one is a civillian in a war zone its to bad. Thats pretty much what I am getting from what you have written. Did Armenians serve in the Russian Army?? Yes part of Armenia was occupied by them. They also served in the Greek, Bulgarian, British and French Military big deal. Those punished were civilians that had nothing to do with that fact.

http://www.genocide1915.info/

Armenian Cypriot I think you misunderstood my point, all I'm trying to say is that untill this is proven Turkey should not be condemned like how they are know. I don't think it's right at all those Armenian people got killed and I am not saying "too bad" at all! You say the ones punished were civilians and the same can be said about the muslim deaths that no one even bats an eye lid over. No one will admit or even acknowledge their part in these massacares, I know more Armenians got killed yet the same thing happened to loads of muslims which have been denied in the same way by the Armenians.

The way Armenians are going about it in my opinion is just plain and simply wrong, upto now refusing an investigation yet trying to get pity through political means is wrong. Just as the French leader of Christian Democrats François Bayrou said:

“French president can say “I believe in genocide” representing the country. However, it is wrong to enact this as a law. Thousands of Armenians experienced a tragedy at the beginning of the last century. But this should not be a matter of law; it should be a matter for historians.”

I don't believe that the Ottomans were innocent at all, I know a lot of innocent people got killed yet what really pisses me off is the way that Armenia want to completely put all the blame on Turkey like they did nothing wrong, and like the Ottomans weren't provoked by them in the slightest. There is no excuse for murder however it is completely wrong to ignore events at your leisure in order to paint the picture you want people to see. Untill there is a proper investigation by historians then Turkey should not be condemned for genocide or denial.

Like I said before I know they are not innocent but I really don't believe that they are guilty of genocide either, I say this not because I'm Turkish but because I have done my own research on the Armenian question and till now I have yet to see 1 Armenian video which mentions those rebellion movements or their own crimes, for this reason I can't take what I hear seriously. I don't think they have any right to blame Turkey for denial when they're suffering from the same thing themselves nor do they have any right to refuse investigations while trying to fight their cause through politics.

by **shahmaran** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:25 pm

Piratis wrote:The fact is that what is now Turkey was before inhabited by others. The turks exterminated all of them, and the only ones left are the Kurds. If this did not happen then there would be no Turkey today.

Probably would have been divided by Greek, English, French, Armenians, Kurds etc. and Turkey very rightfully exterminated THOSE who served these bastards! :roll:

by **Sotos** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:54 am

When we know all the lies of the Turks about Cyprus why should we even consider that what they say about the Armenians could be true.

by **T_C** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:13 am

Sotos wrote:When we know all the lies of the Turks about Cyprus why should we even consider that what they say about the Armenians could be true.

Well I'm glad you understand even if you don't realise you do. After all the (blatant) lies and fabrications by Armenians why should we even consider that what they say about Ottomans could be true?

The archives are open, all they're asking for is Armenian and international historians to come forward and investigate the claims. They want the Armenians to open up their archives, what is so wrong with that?

Why don't the Armenians open up their archives to this very day? Why? If they so desperately want to prove a genocide happened and if they're so convinced it did happen? Then why? I just don't understand...

Why have they changed the number of people dead from 4 million to 600k then back to 1.5 million again? It is proven that there were only roughly 1.5 million Armenians who used to live in Turkey at the time. These figures come from International sources like Encyclopedia Britannia and the French Yellow Book and numerous others. Why should something that has obviously been fabricated not be investigated?

It's not a matter of why should we believe them, it's a matter of come and see for yourself. Turkey can't lie about this one I'm afraid, not when they're offering for international historians to investigate it, if they wasn't fair enough I would be suspicious also.

It's not even a matter for just Turkish and Armenian historians, a lot of people will need to get involved such as the Russian historians because their archives contain a lot of information on the Dashnak rebellion movements.

If you were to read about it properly then you would understand Turkeys stance on the issue.

by **Sotos** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:55 am

what you say is the Turkish position on the subject. But there should be the Armenian one also. And as we know from what Turkey did in occupied Cyprus the Turks have no moral issues to ethnically cleanse people. So if they could ethnically cleanse 200.000 GCs in 1974 then why shouldn't we believe that they killed 1.5 million Armenians? To me it seems totally possible! Maybe the Turks have some excuse like "3 Armenian men killed 15 Turks one day so then we had to go and kill every Armenian we saw because Armenians are bad and they had to die" or something like that like they tell to us every day.

by **T_C** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:51 am

Sotos wrote:what you say is the Turkish position on the subject. But there should be the Armenian one also. And as we know from what Turkey did in occupied Cyprus the Turks have no moral issues to ethnically cleanse people. So if they could ethnically cleanse 200.000 GCs in 1974 then why shouldn't we believe that they killed 1.5 million Armenians? To me it seems totally possible! Maybe the Turks have some excuse like "3 Armenian men killed 15 Turks one day so then we had to go and kill every Armenian we saw because Armenians are bad and they had to die" or something like that like they tell to us every day.

Well do you not think that the Turkish position is rather acceptable and fair? They're not just making claims, they're offering for people to come and investigate for themselves. What can people expect them to do?

Did you even read anything I wrote in this thread Sotos or did you just skim because it wouldn't do you no favours to even consider Turkey may be right.

The fact that it has taken majority of the international population 100 years to accept it was a "genocide" speaks volumes in my opinion. :roll:

by **shahmaran** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:57 am

of course he didn't read it, if he had done he wouldn't be able to make such blatantly moronistic remarks :roll:

by **ARMENIAN CYPRIOT** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:12 am

T C , I found the article again. Please go to the Turkish Daily News web site and read the article by Mehment Ali Birand written on Mrch 14th of this year . www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=68233

by **shahmaran** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:34 pm

There is no way of knowing the details behind what was limited, could be something irrelevant and not allowed to be revealed due to some other security measures, im sure any Turkish investigator in Armenia would have got treated much worse for wanting to investigate their archives....

The whole case stinks like shit, thats more than obvious....

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