Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

Well then i have no objection to your diluted conspiracies either...

There are many good reasons why the PKK could not be eradicated completely since the late 70s which i cannot be bothered to get into only to change your mind about Turks and Turkey.

Thats over 30 years of good "excuses" to invade Iraq, oil or not, way before the Americans had a chance to do it, but even if it was for oil why do it now when there are so many people in there already who are against us entering the country? Also let me remind you that we have already been in there more then 20 times since, why is this one so special and "oil oriented" ?

To send some hundreds of commando with light arms 10-12km inside Iraq for several days is absolutely different thing than to make a full stage invasion with tanks/airplanes and 100000 soldiers.

An other important factor is the intentions in air for an indepedent Kurdistan inside Iraq which was not the case before Americans come in the scene.

There are many serious factors making us to thing differently and not any conspirancy imagination.

[shahmaran]

An independent Kurdistan is nothing new and has been in the "air" for a very long time, way before the US. Saddam gassing the Kurds back in 1988 for their uprising is a very good example of it along with the existence of the PKK going back to the late 70s.

The only people who want an independent Kurdish state are the Barzani supporters and the PKK, Iraq does not want an independent Kurdish state, and neither does Turkey nor Syria and Talabani himself has been quoted many times agreeing that it is not be possible.

The fact that Turkey is being supported by Talabani and the Iraqi protests against the Kurds themselves is a proof of Turkeys intentions being genuine and supported by many. The only reason i can think of for Turkeys extremely large military invasion is her "enough is enough" attitude which is way overdue and in serious need for lasting results. But even now it has been delayed for another 2 weeks in return for immediate action from the US and the Iraqi army against the PKK. The ball is now in their hands once again and if they fail one more time there will be no one who can stop Turkey from moving in.

I think Turkey deserves a lot of respect for being so patient under so much pressure during these extremely emotional times, when there are so many casualties and parents of soldiers crying for some action to be taken and protests being carried out all over the place.

[Eric dayi]

Epsilon, honestly, i find your suggestion preposterous, not only becayse Turkey has actually anything to gain from entering Iraq other then giving many more casualties and hopefully eradicating the PKK and capturing the 12 main leaders they are after, but also because the information you have got about the recent attacks is not accurate nor complete, because this is what i think:

1 - Turkish army was never accused of such an event let alone it being proved and accepted as such, if they have i have never heard of it and i would love to see your source

2 - PKK attacks have resumed 3 years ago, in 2004 and i think Turkey has been pretty patient waiting this long, considering most cuntries would have reacted much sooner ie. Israel has bombed Lebanon immediately after the capture of only 2 soldiers and the US after 9/11 but lets not even go there.

3 - Turkish government doesnt need to resort to such conspiracies since they are actually under pressure from the public now because they are exposing themselves as the actual incompetent idiots which they are and seem to be more interested in their Islamic agendas then anything and suprizingly, are STILL after diplomatic means in order to avoid upsetting the bastards in the White House. Mean while the public is protesting left and right all over the country and the PKK is using this opportunity to boost their attacks on the East.

4 - The attacks you are reffering to on the 21st of October was indeed and ambush, which resulted in the death of 12 Turkish soldiers, 32 PKK terrorists, the attack prior to this one was on the 7th of October which again resulted in the death of 13 Turkish soldiers and 1 PKK terrorist.

So my friend, it is highly unlikely that Turkey is fabricating excuses to move into Iraq, if anything they are being very reluctant and not being aggressive enough, considering the recent events.

My friend it seems that you still believe or consider that the aim of an invasion in Iraq is to destroy the 3500 PKK terrorists , if you like to call them this way personally i do not have any objection on basis they have killed unarmed people in certain occasions. Personally i believe that Turkey's aim has nothing to do with such a small target- 100000 soldiers can not invate a foreign country to fight 3500 fighters who have not even a tug or airplane. The aim of course is OIL but unfortunately Americans went there first and therefore no luck this time.This what made the Generals so agry. To fight 3500 Kurds is simple even for the Cyprus army not for the 2nd bigger army in NATO.

The conspiracy theories of the GCs about Turkey never ceases to amaze me but this one made me laugh the loudest.

When a single gunman takes a hostage or kills someone, at least 50 police officers and a "swat" team are deployed to bring an end to the situation but you are saying that 100,000 Turkish soldiers are too many to seek and destroy 3500 terrorists armed to the teeth in such a vast and mountainous area...

ok mate, millions of people might not believe you but don't worry, I do.

[EPSILON]

An independent Kurdistan is nothing new and has been in the "air" for a very long time, way before the US. Saddam gassing the Kurds back in 1988 for their uprising is a very good example of it along with the existence of the PKK going back to the late 70s.

The only people who want an independent Kurdish state are the Barzani supporters and the PKK, Iraq does not want an independent Kurdish state, and neither does Turkey nor Syria and Talabani himself has been quoted many times agreeing that it is not be possible.

The fact that Turkey is being supported by Talabani and the Iraqi protests against the Kurds themselves is a proof of Turkeys intentions being genuine and supported by many. The only reason i can think of for Turkeys extremely large military invasion is her "enough is enough" attitude which is way overdue and in serious need for lasting results. But even now it has been delayed for another 2 weeks in return for immediate action from the US and the Iraqi army against the PKK. The ball is now in their hands once again and if they fail one more time there will be no one who can stop Turkey from moving in.

I think Turkey deserves a lot of respect for being so patient under so much pressure during these extremely emotional times, when there are so many casualties and parents of soldiers crying for some action to be taken and protests being carried out all over the place.

Turkey's civilians, all Ethnicities, allowed a great respect of living in a semi dictatorship regime for so many years.My personal problem with a part of these civilians is the fact that they do not undestand that they are living in a not democratic country and therefore they do nothing to improve the situation-they just wait outsiders to do something.

If Turkey was a full democratic country believe i would consider the case to go and stay permanately in one of the most beautiful cities i have ever visited, Istanbul.

[shahmaran]

The fact that AKP is in charge against all odds and Kemalists, followed by a deeply religious/corrupt President and a covered wife in the Presidential Palace, is good enough to prove that Turkeys democracy is perfectly fine and working even if its not always serving Turkeys best interests, how you come to the conclusion that Turkey is a semi-dictatorship and that they are waiting for the outsiders to do something, i do not understand.

Other then that, Istanbul is beautiful indeed, I am there right now and have been witnessing people protest on the streets with Turkish flags and anti-terror slogans for a few days now, but what gets to me the most is the amount of random people on the streets simultaneously bursting in tears when encountering the protesters.

On top of the general melancholy of the Turkish people, these are extra sad times for everyone in the country.

[phoenix]

Turkey turning to Israel as its only supporter in its failure to accept responsibility for the genocide. It's a crying shame that a nation that has suffered the Holocaust should be helping this denial.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/mid ... 101947.ece

[shahmaran]

Its a crying shame that the whole matter is being exploited in such a way

[DT.]

Its a crying shame that the whole matter is being exploited in such a way

this might have been covered before Shamaran but i'd like to hear your take on this. DO you believe that the Kurds as a people have a right for self determination?

[shahmaran]

Of course, everyone does. But how that is achieved is another matter.

[DT.]

Of course, everyone does. But how that is achieved is another matter.

what would be the correct method in your mind to accompish their self determination..which appears to be an independant state?