Threat of coup d'etat in Turkey
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 10:52 am |
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| zan |
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The constitutional court has annuled the voting in the first round of Turkish presidential elections...They agreed with the opposition CHP party that 367 mps must be in the chamber before the session can begin...
Make no mistake about it...This is a coup d'etat organised by the military and the nationalist elite/deep state whatever...but without putting the tanks in the street.Established interests of the deep state has been preserved,and the Turkish democracy has been mortally wounded today...It is a sad day for Turkey...and all who believe in full parliamentary democracy...  |
And is the presence of these MPs a part of the democratic laws or not. Surelly they are trying to be democratic by wanting all the votes to come in and not just some. If there is a problem then they should sort that out first before commiting to a vote. |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:24 am |
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| cypezokyli |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 17 Jul 2005 |
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| Location: deutschland |
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| Quote: |
The secularist hype in Turkey is a fact-free paranoia
If secular freedoms are really under threat in Turkey because of the ‘moderate Muslim’ AKP government, why many secular liberals (some of whom are atheists or agnostics) think that the real threat is the ultra-secularist mindset?
MUSTAFA AKYOL
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http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=72119 |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:25 am |
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| BirKibrisli |
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2005 |
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| zan wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The constitutional court has annuled the voting in the first round of Turkish presidential elections...They agreed with the opposition CHP party that 367 mps must be in the chamber before the session can begin...
Make no mistake about it...This is a coup d'etat organised by the military and the nationalist elite/deep state whatever...but without putting the tanks in the street.Established interests of the deep state has been preserved,and the Turkish democracy has been mortally wounded today...It is a sad day for Turkey...and all who believe in full parliamentary democracy... |
And is the presence of these MPs a part of the democratic laws or not. Surelly they are trying to be democratic by wanting all the votes to come in and not just some. If there is a problem then they should sort that out first before commiting to a vote. |
As I said elsewhere there is no one as blind as.....
Zan,the requirement that 367 MPs (two thirds) must be present and cast their vote for the procedure to be valid was not demanded in the past 3 elections of the Presidents Ozal,Demirel and Sezer...
Even blind Freddie can see that it was pulled out of the constitutional court's hat to stop Gul from becoming President...I am no fan of the AKP,Erdogan or Gul,as you probably remember,but you cannot change the rules of the game halfway,because your side is not winning...
This is what they did in Turkey today...There was no problem until they artifically manufactured one,and the problem arose because the CHP MPs and the other establishment party MPs refused to attend the proceedings...
Where else have you seen,in a democratic country,the democratically elected MPs refusing to attend parliament and cast a vote,because they knew they would lose that vote???
Oh...I remember one "parliament" where opposition MPS are boycotting the proceedings because they don't have the numbers to change anything...The TRNC parliament...  |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:37 am |
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| zan |
| vip |
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| Joined: 02 Nov 2005 |
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
| zan wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The constitutional court has annuled the voting in the first round of Turkish presidential elections...They agreed with the opposition CHP party that 367 mps must be in the chamber before the session can begin...
Make no mistake about it...This is a coup d'etat organised by the military and the nationalist elite/deep state whatever...but without putting the tanks in the street.Established interests of the deep state has been preserved,and the Turkish democracy has been mortally wounded today...It is a sad day for Turkey...and all who believe in full parliamentary democracy... |
And is the presence of these MPs a part of the democratic laws or not. Surelly they are trying to be democratic by wanting all the votes to come in and not just some. If there is a problem then they should sort that out first before commiting to a vote. |
As I said elsewhere there is no one as blind as.....
Zan,the requirement that 367 MPs (two thirds) must be present and cast their vote for the procedure to be valid was not demanded in the past 3 elections of the Presidents Ozal,Demirel and Sezer...
Even blind Freddie can see that it was pulled out of the constitutional court's hat to stop Gul from becoming President...I am no fan of the AKP,Erdogan or Gul,as you probably remember,but you cannot change the rules of the game halfway,because your side is not winning...
This is what they did in Turkey today...There was no problem until they artifically manufactured one,and the problem arose because the CHP MPs and the other establishment party MPs refused to attend the proceedings...
Where else have you seen,in a democratic country,the democratically elected MPs refusing to attend parliament and cast a vote,because they knew they would lose that vote???
Oh...I remember one "parliament" where opposition MPS are boycotting the proceedings because they don't have the numbers to change anything...The TRNC parliament... |
You have not made it clear if these MPs have to be in when the vote is being carried out or not. Just because it has been abused before does not make it right is all I am saying. There may be more going on behind the scenes than we know about. I don't come to decisions like you do without thinking that there may be sometghing else going on. |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:49 am |
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| BirKibrisli |
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2005 |
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| Location: Australia |
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My understanding is that not only 367 MPs must be present,but under the new rule,there must be at least 367 votes cast for the proceedings to be valid...This is an impossible lifting of the bar,Zan,in anybodies language.
It means that in the future it will be impossible to elect a President in Turkey,unless one party commands 367 votes...
What do you think will happen now? What if at the coming elections the AKP returns with 367 or more MPs???How will they stop Gul from being elected then? Yes, you guessed it...with tanks this time.  |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 11:55 am |
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| karma |
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| Joined: 29 Nov 2006 |
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
My understanding is that not only 367 MPs must be present,but under the new rule,there must be at least 367 votes cast for the proceedings to be valid...This is an impossible lifting of the bar,Zan,in anybodies language.
It means that in the future it will be impossible to elect a President in Turkey,unless one party commands 367 votes...
What do you think will happen now? What if at the coming elections the AKP returns with 367 or more MPs???How will they stop Gul from being elected then? Yes, you guessed it...with tanks this time. |
I hope so, otherwise the same tanks will be used against secularists in a few years..
between the 2 bad things I wld prefer the less bad 1 |
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:05 pm |
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| BirKibrisli |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2005 |
| Posts: 2592 |
| Location: Australia |
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| karma wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
My understanding is that not only 367 MPs must be present,but under the new rule,there must be at least 367 votes cast for the proceedings to be valid...This is an impossible lifting of the bar,Zan,in anybodies language.
It means that in the future it will be impossible to elect a President in Turkey,unless one party commands 367 votes...
What do you think will happen now? What if at the coming elections the AKP returns with 367 or more MPs???How will they stop Gul from being elected then? Yes, you guessed it...with tanks this time. |
I hope so, otherwise the same tanks will be used against secularists in a few years..
between the 2 bad things I wld prefer the less bad 1 |
You have nothing to worry about karma mou/karmacigim!
Lena,Natty and I will protect you with our lives from those terrible tanks...
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:08 pm |
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| BirKibrisli |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 16 Aug 2005 |
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On a more serious note,this probably will pave the way for Presidential election by public vote...The Pandora's box might just get opened then...
The fat lady has not sang yet...  |
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:07 pm |
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| Alexis |
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| Quote: |
On a more serious note,this probably will pave the way for Presidential election by public vote...The Pandora's box might just get opened then...
The fat lady has not sang yet... |
Just out of interest, what do most Turks/TCs/People of Turkish descent/Others think would happen if the Turkish people were asked to vote for a president? Do you think Gul would be elected? With the risk of being oversimplistic, what is the perceived split of secularists versus islamists? Who would win? Islamist parties seem to be quite popular in Turkey whilst at the same time millions come out to protest in favour of secularism. |
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| Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:14 pm |
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| karma |
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| Joined: 29 Nov 2006 |
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| Alexis wrote: |
| Quote: |
On a more serious note,this probably will pave the way for Presidential election by public vote...The Pandora's box might just get opened then...
The fat lady has not sang yet... |
Just out of interest, what do most Turks/TCs/People of Turkish descent/Others think would happen if the Turkish people were asked to vote for a president? Do you think Gul would be elected? With the risk of being oversimplistic, what is the perceived split of secularists versus islamists? Who would win? Islamist parties seem to be quite popular in Turkey whilst at the same time millions come out to protest in favour of secularism. |
Gul wouldnt be elected for sure...any1 but not an AKP member...People know wht thry r trying to achieve... |
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