Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

denizaksulu, here we are talking about churches of many centuries old with very significant cultural value which the Turks have looted and sold their valuable items abroad. And you compare that with some half finished minaret?

The Turks are well known for trying to destroy the culture of others and impose their own. Ayia Sofia in Constantinople is the greatest example. They have done the same in Cyprus during the Ottoman times. In fact most of the historically significant mosques in Cyprus where originally churches which the Ottomans turned into mosques, like the "Lala Mustafa Pasha Mosque" which was originally the Saint Nicolas Cathedral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lala_Mustafa_Pasha_Mosque

The Hala Sultan Tekke which is the most important mosque in Cyprus is maintained constantly by the Republic of Cyprus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hala_Sultan_Tekke

Sorry that after you invaded Cyprus and made 200.000 people refugees our efforts was to rehouse those people and re-create our destroyed country, and we did not allocate money to maintain every minaret. What is certain is that the government of Cyprus did not intentionally destroy anything, and if it was not for your insistence on partition, you could have remained to your own villages (instead of stealing our own) and maintain your minarets and everything.

Partition was your dream since the 50s, so how can you complain about the results of your illegalities and criminal actions?

Piratis, I am sometimes surprised by you. Does it matter whether churches are old or new? Its enough that these dastardly acts are done. You are a coward for not admitting any wrong doing by GCs against t TC properties. What a shame that I have to tell you this.

Deniz ... only a Turk could fail to appreciate history!

Even the British have Conservation Areas where pre-Victorian homes have to be treated with more consideration!

Oracle, I also agree with you that what has happened is terrible. But when your friend tries to differentiate between old and new, I just dont see it. It is all sacrilage. By bringing in 'old age' he is simply condoning the desecration of moslem holy places on the grounds that they are 'new'. Come on now, you can see that.

Piratis is well able to answer for himself ... but what I think you fail to appreciate is that those "Mosques" are "new" because they have been converted from what were old Orthodox Churches ...

As I have always maintained ... the Ottoman-Turks have brought nothing of any worth to Cyprus, merely stole an ongoing GC culture ....

You might be talking of St. Sophia in Istanbul or Nicosia. The Nicosia St. Sofia was Latin built. If I am wrong feel free to correct me. The mosque in our village was recently built from scratch. It was not a church previously. If any were converted, at least it is still a house of God. Still, there is no excuse for the wanton destruction of Cypriot culture, whether Greek or Turkish.

[Piratis]

Denis, the first thing you do not understand is the intention of the state (or the occupation regime in the case of occupied areas).

For example for a church to become a Hotel, like it was the case in the occupied areas, is something that has to be approved by the state. A businessman can't just move in a church and transform it to a hotel. The destruction of our historical heritage and the removal of everything Greek was the aim of the occupation regime. They even changed the names of our villages to Turkish ones! If you can not see that the regime in the north has as an aim the forceful de-Hellenization and Turkification of the occupied areas then you are blind.

In the free areas the government didn't destroy any TC monuments, neither it approved their transformation into Hotels and such. If some of your monuments were damaged this is due to the 30+ years that were abandoned, or because some villager went and took stones from the half-built minaret of your village. The maximum you can accuse the Cypriot State is that it has not allocated money for the preservation of all mosques, but as I explained you earlier we had 200.000 refugees to house and an economy to re-create, and paying money to maintain every mosque was not the priority of the government. (the state doesn't pay money for the preservation of churches either. The Church of Cyprus takes care of their own churches, and they would do the same in the north if your regime allowed them)

The second thing you need to understand is the historical significance of some places. Do you actually compare a church of many centuries old full with invaluable ancient icons, and some half build minaret?

When you return to your village you will complete that minaret - problem solved. Where are we going to find all those ancient icons that were in those churches, not to mention the historical significance of the building itself which was many centuries old.

So I am sorry for what happened to your minaret and similar cases, but you have to understand that this was the result of the partition that you wanted and not the intention of the Cypriot government.

So how about you let us to return to our villages so we can save whatever can be saved, and you can also return to your villages so you can preserve your own monuments? Or are you going to insist on partition, so that after 30 more years you will come to blame us because even more of what you abandoned collapsed?

[halil]

The only thing that happened to some of those places is that they were abandoned by you because you wanted to steal our land in north Cyprus and go live there instead. Still, all the major Muslim monuments have been preserved in the Republic of Cyprus.

Compare this with what Turks have done in the occupied areas:

They forced the native Cypriot population to leave from their towns and villages and then they intentionally destroyed almost everything Greek and Christian they could find, changed the names of our towns and villages to Turkish ones and they did and continue to do everything possible to erase from north Cyprus everything that proves that this part of Cyprus, like every other, is the homeland of Greek Cypriots for 1000s of years.

Yet another case where the Turks commit the crime, and then they come to blame us! Like when they invaded Cyprus multiple times, killing 1000s of Cypriots, and then they come here to complain because some 100s of their kind have also been killed in the conflicts which they started against us!

Piratis. Halil is posting these peictures to show that Turkish mosques have also been vandalised to show those in denial that such things never happened.
In August I had made reference to the mosque in our village and also published a photo of the site. The mosque was pulled down stone by stone by the villagers as soon as the Turkish residents were forced to leave. The mosque and the half finished minaret were made from cut stone, so the argument that they might have been weathered down - like mud brick houses- is a total fallacy.

The looting of sacred places, ransacking and destruction of these places of worship is abhorable, whether done to Turkish or Greek sites. Everyone should condemn these acts. Somehow some even are in denial that these have happened.

Be brave Piratis. Admit, that it happened as I do. You will feel much better, I am sure.

Below is the link where I posted my photograph of my village. Its on page 4 (I think). It was in Zans thread Cyprus 2008.


http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... c&start=30

Yes Deniz , you are right I was trying to show them

[halil]

Deniz here is the picture of the cemetery in your village .It is shows very clearly it is not the only mosques damaged ,houses , trees and other belongings to Turkish Cypriots .İt has been done systemically that if you return one day you will not find anything from your past .

next pictures topic will be about razed houses Deniz , these pictures and vidoes are all given to diplomatic missions in Cyprus .





Above pictures were from your village Aksu (Anklisdhes ) you may know who is the Aydın Hasan .

[denizaksulu]

Denis, the first thing you do not understand is the intention of the state (or the occupation regime in the case of occupied areas).

For example for a church to become a Hotel, like it was the case in the occupied areas, is something that has to be approved by the state. A businessman can't just move in a church and transform it to a hotel. The destruction of our historical heritage and the removal of everything Greek was the aim of the occupation regime. They even changed the names of our villages to Turkish ones! If you can not see that the regime in the north has as an aim the forceful de-Hellenization and Turkification of the occupied areas then you are blind.

In the free areas the government didn't destroy any TC monuments, neither it approved their transformation into Hotels and such. If some of your monuments were damaged this is due to the 30+ years that were abandoned, or because some villager went and took stones from the half-built minaret of your village. The maximum you can accuse the Cypriot State is that it has not allocated money for the preservation of all mosques, but as I explained you earlier we had 200.000 refugees to house and an economy to re-create, and paying money to maintain every mosque was not the priority of the government. (the state doesn't pay money for the preservation of churches either. The Church of Cyprus takes care of their own churches, and they would do the same in the north if your regime allowed them)

The second thing you need to understand is the historical significance of some places. Do you actually compare a church of many centuries old full with invaluable ancient icons, and some half build minaret?

When you return to your village you will complete that minaret - problem solved. Where are we going to find all those ancient icons that were in those churches, not to mention the historical significance of the building itself which was many centuries old.

So I am sorry for what happened to your minaret and similar cases, but you have to understand that this was the result of the partition that you wanted and not the intention of the Cypriot government.

So how about you let us to return to our villages so we can save whatever can be saved, and you can also return to your villages so you can preserve your own monuments? Or are you going to insist on partition, so that after 30 more years you will come to blame us because even more of what you abandoned collapsed?

Piratis, I accept the charges levelled againt the regime in the North. In my book these are all wrong. Yet the point Halil and I are makng is that GC are not whiter than white when it comes to destruction of properties. Whether sanctioned by the top people or not. I condemn all those people at the top who have turned a blind eye or are complicit in the destruction of the Cypriot Heritage. That has always been my stance and am not afraid to say so.

As I have said repeatedly 'our mosque would not have fallen to ruin in a hundred years has it not been aided by human beings. Whether with goverment approval or not.

[denizaksulu]

Deniz here is the picture of the cemetery in your village .It is shows very clearly it is not the only mosques damaged ,houses , trees and other belongings to Turkish Cypriots .İt has been done systemically that if you return one day you will not find anything from your past .

next pictures topic will be about razed houses Deniz , these pictures and vidoes are all given to diplomatic missions in Cyprus .





Above pictures were from your village Aksu (Anklisdhes ) you may know who is the Aydın Hasan .

Thanks Halil for that photograph of the cemetary.

The smashed grave of Miss Aydin Hasan has poigant memories for me. She was a 18/19 year old girl who died in a traffic accident near the Klavdia bridge on the way back from Larnaca. I remember her funeral too. I noticed from the photograph that almost all the Cypress trees are missing.

All Aydins relatives are in the UK. I hope they do not see this picture.

[halil]

Deniz ,
properly Aydın's are visited their village too , like you ....

almost all the Turkish Cypriots are visited their villages in south and they were all shocked .

have a look what was came out in those days in our press .

“Today, we are informed that the brick stones and doors of the houses Turkish Cypriots have abandoned in the South are being dismantled and sold. Following the opening of the crossing points in 2003, many Turkish Cypriots have crossed over hoping to visit their homes and properties in the south but unfortunately the only thing they experienced was disappointment. Some of the Turkish Cypriot villages are completely gone. The houses, graveyards, mosques, schools have all become ruins. Many villages have been destroyed. Had their names not been on the map, the visitors would have thought that those places were plain fields. Therefore, isolating the property issue from the Cyprus problem and launching it to the world as the problem of only the Greek Cypriots is nothing but cruelty”. Ercakica defined the activities of the Greek Cypriot side on this issue as an example of the fact how cruelly they exploit being recognized as “”the Republic of Cyprus” against the Turkish Cypriots.


THE DESTROYED TURKISH CYPRIOT VILLAGES IN THE SOUTH

The Adviser of the Political and Cultural Research Department of the TRNC Presidency Mr. Ahmet Okan stated that 30 Turkish Cypriot villages the Turkish Cypriots have abandoned since 1963, and mostly in 1974-1975, have completely been destroyed.

Referring to the news item issued in the Greek Cypriot press titled “The brick stones of the Turkish Cypriot houses in Tera village are being sold”, Mr. Okan said that since many Turkish Cypriot villages have become victims of such treatment, the said news item did not surprise them. He also distributed to the press the list of 30 Turkish Cypriot villages they have prepared within the frame work of the work they have been carrying out.

Saying that all cultural assets and houses in the villages included in the list have been destroyed, Mr. Okan added that “There is nothing left in the villages in terms of cultural assets”. He also said that in village of Tera, which used to be a village Greek and Turkish Cypriots lived together, the Greek Cypriots continue to reside in their houses whereas the Turkish Cypriot assets have all been destroyed. Responding to a question, Mr.Okan said that the work they have been carrying out regarding South Cyprus is mainly for the international community. He said that their purpose is to determine the current status of the issue and, warning the relevant authorities, enable some measures to be taken. Stating that their purpose is to renovate the cultural assets via this work, Mr. Okan stated that “Our purpose is not retaliation”.

LIST OF DESTROYED TURKISH VILLAGES

According to the information and documents distributed at the press briefing, the Turkish Cypriot villages destroyed in South Cyprus are as follows:

Larnaca; Esendağ (Pertrofan), Softalar, Paphos; Akkargı (Pitargu), Beşiktepe (Melendra), Dağaşan (Vretçça), Dereboyu (Evretu), Faslı, Gökçebel (Falya), Gündoğdu (Antriliku), Kervanyolu (Karamulliyes), Kurtağa, Kuşluca (Sarama), Olukönü (Lukurnu), Uluçam (Marona), Moronero, Susuz, Tabanlı (İstinco), Tatlıca (Zaharga), Uzunmeşe (Tremetusa), Yakacık (Magunda), Yuvalı (Prastyo), Limasol; Aşağı Kivides, Yerovası (Yerovasa), Lefkoşa; Alevkaya, Alifodez, Arpalık (Ay Sozomeno), Aybifan, Kurtboğan (Yukarı Kutrafa), Selçuklu, Yağmuralan (Vroisha).

[Paphitis]

The cemetery of Palekythro in Occupied Cyprus:

[Paphitis]

The Greek Orthodox Church (Ayios Charalambos) of Neo Chorio Kythrea in Occupied Cyprus:

[Nikitas]

Lefkara, glad you mentioned Lefkara Halil because I was there last year and stayed with people who are renting a house belonging to TCs.

This house, as all the adjoining house, were left behind by TCs and they seemed to be in good condition. Some are occupied, some are not, and those that are occupied are rented to the tenants, the TITLE remains in the name of the original owners and their descendants. So the charge that ALL TC villages and properties have been razed to the ground seems a little overdone. Obviously some were willfully destroyed, some neglected and some are being used.

I also went to the village of Mari, and the houses seem a little old and badly maintained, but they are still there. If one village would merit a demolition by fanatics that would be it.

And another point, none of the names of these villages have been changed officially or unofficially. If there was an organized drive to de-turkify the south then they would have employed the name changing tactic so popular in the north, along with the icon and antiquities trade that has become an international business.