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The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu May 18, 2017 5:00 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Corbyn says what he will (wants) to do and May does nothing but point out why she thinks every thing he proposed is pie-in-the-sky and has to fail ...... she does not put out a message ..... she just runs down the opposition!


Funny that, because you were pretty ebullient about May as recently as July 12 last year, when you posted:

At least she sounds like she has a plan. Good luck to her, if she can get the people behind her the UK will recover and, IMO will end up as the power behind a new type of Europe as it breaks up into sovereign states again.


cyprus44835-770.html?hilit=she%20has%20a%20plan#p844657

Just curious what lies behind your sudden conversion to ardent Labour supporter.


It is called having the capacity to revise your opinion as news breaks which you can then compare with a previous opinion based on facts which are later superseded by more recent information. Unlike you I am not driven by a particular dogma or ideology. May, like Trump seemed OK but later events say maybe they are not what they seemed to be. Same applies to Corbyn but he is beginning to get his message over, has a better persona in front of the cameras and when he is interviewed he does not come over as scruffy union rep!

TM, I feel, demonstrates she is too highly strung and is relying too much on attacking Labour policies rather than promoting her own. The Conservatives released their manifesto today although I have not yet read it, but now maybe she will change her MO.

So I revise my views. A bit like when they discovered the earth was not flat after all or when they discovered that the Earth revolved around the Sun ..... not the other way round. My original view was valid at the time but based on different facts and impressions. TM was not going to have an election ..... the she changed her mind because she considered other information ...... the reason she did that, only she knows but it obviously offered an advantage. :roll:


Thank you for offering your insights into the intellectual journey that has taken you from May supporter to Corbyn supporter in less than one year. It is all the more interesting in that most virulent supporters of the UK leaving the EU and entering splendid isolation on the fringes of the continent seem to be very keen on May.
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Thu May 18, 2017 5:15 pm

LR:
You're really talking about entirely different things.


Maybe but the MO was the same in both events, the attempt was to invoke fear in the population against the opposite camp rather than confidence building for their own policies. At the end of the day their confidence in victory was so entrenched, the idea they could lose never occurred to Clinton or Cameron ....... and were both gob-smacked when the experts were proved wrong. Cameron spat his dummy and resigned and Clinton had a big row with Bill and after crying out ‘foul’ and blaming Putin, she started to plan her revenge.

One of Corbyn's biggest problems is not that he has the expected Conservative detractors and so-called media bias but that for two years and even during this campaign he's been regularly vilified by his own Parliamentarians.


But they should have considered his policies rather than the man’s character/history. After all the election is about how to and who will run the UK in the way that is best for the ...... the ordinary people or the City elite.

How much of a return would you want, to lend him money?


That’s just it ...... if you understand the mechanism of money creation and the principal of ‘Peoples QE’ you would realise with that application he does not need to borrow anything! Believe me, the Banks know the threat from that but can’t make obvious waves as people would then find out all about the Banking fraud. That is why JFK died ..... he made the same noises. :? :shock:

Really though, is the way ahead actually to return to the 70s (we were both there)?


Yes ..... just think about the 70’s. We had a national education system from Primary to University, mostly free, a reliable and treatment free at source NHS,(even the parking was free) most average wage earners paid no Income Tax and we were paid in cash!.

When I left school at 16 it was a case of what did I want to be, (so OK I admit that wanting to be a fighter ace was not an achievable career choice) Now you need a bloody degree to stack the shelves in Tesco and it is a case of taking what is on offer. Don’t you think that when you look back, those really were the ‘good-old-days’? What is wrong with going back to the society we had in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s? I grieve for the youngsters of today .... they do not have the sort of future we could reasonably look forward to.

Until, as ever, they drove the economy onto the rocks and ran out of money.


You see, you fall for the propaganda ...... it is a simple fact that an economy that has its own currency can never run out of money!!! It is only poor sods like Greece and Cyprus that do that because they have to borrow any money they require from the ECB. This is why the Western economies are all considered as debt based. Get peoples QE and that debt disappears
.
I suspect what Tim is suggesting is that you changed horses in mid-stream when it became Putin's policy to support Corbyn.


Surely you are not that stupid? As I said to him, I don't promote a dogma or ideology but if Putin has that sort of influence we should surrender now ..... and all learn Russian! I have little time for people that spout authoritatively without actually analysing what it is they are spouting about or even taking the trouble to present some plausible evidence to support their argument. :roll:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Thu May 18, 2017 5:23 pm

TD:

Thank you for offering your insights into the intellectual journey that has taken you from May supporter to Corbyn supporter in less than one year.


Does being intentionally 'bitchy' come naturally to you or do you have to practice? :roll: :x
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri May 19, 2017 12:25 pm

The problem was that such spending was not sustainable without inflation - and the heyday of such beneficence saw inflation peak at close to 25%, corresponding in part to a decline in the relative value of the pound, where "QE" will not bring back the 4/6d gallon or 10p Pint but only drive the price up....throw in a horrendous balance of payments crises where sellers want paying in local currency and we are in the doo doo like 1966, etc,
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Fri May 19, 2017 12:59 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Surely you are not that stupid?


I see that the tone problem still needs a lot of work then? :lol:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 19, 2017 3:23 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Surely you are not that stupid?


I see that the tone problem still needs a lot of work then? :lol:


You demonstrated that you actually appeared to believe all the 'Putin-did-it' conspiracy theories ...... I merely questioned whether you were that stupid ............ once again you avoided an answer! :roll:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 19, 2017 3:32 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:The problem was that such spending was not sustainable without inflation - and the heyday of such beneficence saw inflation peak at close to 25%, corresponding in part to a decline in the relative value of the pound, where "QE" will not bring back the 4/6d gallon or 10p Pint but only drive the price up....throw in a horrendous balance of payments crises where sellers want paying in local currency and we are in the doo doo like 1966, etc,


Why do you believe QE to be inflationary? It is the banks that cause inflation as it is banks that create/lend the money at interest. If they fail to redeem loans, then that is what causes inflation as the money they create as debt is never repaid and taken out of the economy.

Why would there be a horrendous balance of payments crisis in the event of peoples QE? The ideal balance of payments sum is zero ............ it is a balance that is equal on both sides of the scale.
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Fri May 19, 2017 4:31 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Surely you are not that stupid?


I see that the tone problem still needs a lot of work then? :lol:


You demonstrated that you actually appeared to believe all the 'Putin-did-it' conspiracy theories ...... I merely questioned whether you were that stupid ............ once again you avoided an answer! :roll:


I can't see why TBH. I've said on several occasions that there's an element of scapegoating. Also, IIRC, within this thread I suggested that the idea he influenced the UK referendum appears nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy theory, without any credible evidence, being floated by the die-hard Remainers. They seem to get more desperate by the day.

Nevertheless, there's a significant investment in Russia (as in China and the West. It's also beginning to look like the N Koreans are into it as well) wrt modern methods of propagating misinformation and propaganda (apparently nowadays referred to as "fake news"). Was it not actually Putin's area of expertise? Notably in E Germany, back in his KGB days? It's much easier for a dictator to do though. They don't tend to have any (living) enemies to misinform.

I think the Russians learned an important lesson in Georgia in that respect. To believe that there's no truth in any of it is either being remarkably naive or the views of somebody who accepts without question and echoes absolutely everything that originates from Moscow.

In that regard I can't recall a single occasion when you've voiced even the smallest criticism or doubt about Russian activities, motives or interests. Invariably leaping immediately to their defence with an almost school-boyish hero worship. Moreover you pounce on absolutely anything of the like from anybody else. Then you appear surprised that somebody queries your motives for supporting anything at all which clearly serves Russian aspirations as, like Putin, you switch from Trump the great white hope to Trump the decadent idiot and May to Corbyn with puppy dog, slavish enthusiasm. :roll:

It used to be the wonderful, peace-loving Republic of Iran and Amadinejad which could do absolutely no wrong. Now it's Putin and Russia. Same ole thing though, my enemy's enemy and all that. I'm surprised you don't beat the drum for Kim Jong-un TBH. I would have thought him a perfect role model for you. :wink: :lol: Or would that be taking your grudge-fuelled hatred of the UK/US/West a bit too far? :?
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri May 19, 2017 5:51 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Surely you are not that stupid?


I see that the tone problem still needs a lot of work then? :lol:


You demonstrated that you actually appeared to believe all the 'Putin-did-it' conspiracy theories ...... I merely questioned whether you were that stupid ............ once again you avoided an answer! :roll:


Way of the topic but you don't seem to bother too much about that so ........

I can't see why TBH. I've said on several occasions that there's an element of scapegoating. Also, IIRC, within this thread I suggested that the idea he influenced the UK referendum appears nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy theory, without any credible evidence, being floated by the die-hard Remainers. They seem to get more desperate by the day.

Nevertheless, there's a significant investment in Russia (as in China and the West. It's also beginning to look like the N Koreans are into it as well) wrt modern methods of propagating misinformation and propaganda (apparently nowadays referred to as "fake news"). Was it not actually Putin's area of expertise? Notably in E Germany, back in his KGB days? It's much easier for a dictator to do though. They don't tend to have any (living) enemies to misinform.

I think the Russians learned an important lesson in Georgia in that respect. To believe that there's no truth in any of it is either being remarkably naive or the views of somebody who accepts without question and echoes absolutely everything that originates from Moscow.

In that regard I can't recall a single occasion when you've voiced even the smallest criticism or doubt about Russian activities, motives or interests. Invariably leaping immediately to their defence with an almost school-boyish hero worship. Moreover you pounce on absolutely anything of the like from anybody else. Then you appear surprised that somebody queries your motives for supporting anything at all which clearly serves Russian aspirations as, like Putin, you switch from Trump the great white hope to Trump the decadent idiot and May to Corbyn with puppy dog, slavish enthusiasm. :roll:

It used to be the wonderful, peace-loving Republic of Iran and Amadinejad which could do absolutely no wrong. Now it's Putin and Russia. Same ole thing though, my enemy's enemy and all that. I'm surprised you don't beat the drum for Kim Jong-un TBH. I would have thought him a perfect role model for you. :wink: :lol: Or would that be taking your grudge-fuelled hatred of the UK/US/West a bit too far? :?


So you do believe all the propaganda then? :roll: Once again another one of your posts full of pro-US rhetoric against another forum member that does not display the same devotion to the 'Western cause' that you do.

What was the lesson the Russians supposedly learned from the Georgian conflict? The Georgians started it, got smacked in the mouth by the Russians, and went running to the US who of course went for another anti-Russian accusation. Pity that the UN and EU investigations didn't agree with the US paranoia and blamed Georgia for starting it. But of course as you only source from pro-US news sites ...... you wouldn't know that!

The Islamic Republic of Iran is peace loving! They have not attacked another country for over 300 years and have fully complied with the recent UN nuclear agreement ...... but still the US threatens them! So you think the US/UK are peace loving Nations do you? :lol: :lol:

Sorry don't have either the time of the interest in listing all the countries your hero's have attacked in just the last 60 years ...... I might add, including North Korea! They killed 20% of the population, completely destroyed their infrastructure and raised every town and city to rubble ..... and all because the N. Koreans had no modern means of defence against the mighty US war machine. Now ..... how would you feel if you were 'fat-man' ? Who is threatening who here? :roll:
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Re: The UK's EU referendum was rigged !!!!

Postby Londonrake » Sat May 20, 2017 9:50 am

Robin Hood wrote:So you do believe all the propaganda then? :roll: Once again another one of your posts full of pro-US rhetoric against another forum member that does not display the same devotion to the 'Western cause' that you do.


Your usual reaction. :roll: Retreat to a comfort zone. Where exactly is my last post "pro-US rhetoric"? Do enlighten. A total knee-jerk rubbish response - straight off the usual shelf. The reality is that there was no pro-US content - at all.

I pointed out, quite correctly, that you are a slavish and devoted follower of Vladimir Putin's every action and pronouncement. You will accept, unquestioningly, absolutely any proclamation from Moscow, immediately propagate it verbatim and leap to its defence, should anybody dare to question. Then later you will scathingly accuse any poor hapless sod that wanders into your paranoid world of being a gullible idiot, for apparently doing the same, although their sin is invariably to a far lesser degree, if one at all. That's the truth of it. A total hypocrite.

You're an admirer of and apologist for dictators who, were you to be posting your usual vitriolic dross but about them, from within one of their paradise societies, would have you sorted out in a very short time. As always though, the irony of that is either completely lost on you or more likely buried in endless verbiage as an inconvenient truth. :roll:
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