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Re: My political views

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:38 pm

Sotos wrote:Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island.

You can go back in history as far as you like but you won't find a Cyprus belonging to Greece or anything like that.

It's all in your head...
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Re: My political views

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:05 pm

The whole shenanigan taught in Greek/Cypriot schools as Cyprus being “Greek” is accommodated by misconstruing the Eastern Roman Empire as a “Greek Empire”!

Modern Greece has literally HIJACKED the Eastern Roman Empire as a “Greek Empire” which is why they insist on the WRONG name “Byzantine Empire”, but Byzantium was nothing but the initial name of the capital city way before it became newsworthy. During the greatness of the Eastern Roman Empire the word “Byzantium” was never used.

So by using the name “Byzantium” the Greeks CONCEAL the most important aspect of this empire… that it was ROMAN!

So today, the Greeks claim credit for a ROMAN empire as their own and naturally since Cyprus came under the Eastern Roman Empire, they call it “Greek”! :roll: :lol:

Have a guess why Greeks hate Italians... and it's not just due to WWII. :)

That’s it in a nutshell.
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Re: My political views

Postby Sotos » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:57 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island.

You can go back in history as far as you like but you won't find a Cyprus belonging to Greece or anything like that.

It's all in your head...


Greece as a country was founded in the 19th century and we would have been part of it from the begging if we could:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


Seems like that you, as a foreigner that you are, you side with the foreigners who try to keep Cyprus isolated from the rest of Hellenism.
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Re: My political views

Postby Sotos » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:07 pm

Get Real! wrote:The whole shenanigan taught in Greek/Cypriot schools as Cyprus being “Greek” is accommodated by misconstruing the Eastern Roman Empire as a “Greek Empire”!

Modern Greece has literally HIJACKED the Eastern Roman Empire as a “Greek Empire” which is why they insist on the WRONG name “Byzantine Empire”, but Byzantium was nothing but the initial name of the capital city way before it became newsworthy. During the greatness of the Eastern Roman Empire the word “Byzantium” was never used.

So by using the name “Byzantium” the Greeks CONCEAL the most important aspect of this empire… that it was ROMAN!

So today, the Greeks claim credit for a ROMAN empire as their own and naturally since Cyprus came under the Eastern Roman Empire, they call it “Greek”! :roll: :lol:

Have a guess why Greeks hate Italians... and it's not just due to WWII. :)

That’s it in a nutshell.


You are an uneducated fool :lol: The "Eastern Roman Empire" was a Greek empire and not Italian (or Latin).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_East_and_Latin_West

Stick to what you learned at your school... e.g. how Kangaroos mate, and let the history of Cyprus and our nation to those who know it.
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Re: My political views

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:51 pm

Sotos wrote:The "Eastern Roman Empire" was a Greek empire and not Italian (or Latin).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_East_and_Latin_West

Stick to what you learned at your school... e.g. how Kangaroos mate, and let the history of Cyprus and our nation to those who know it.

What did I tell you guys... he has been brainwashed to accept the hijacking of a Roman empire as "Greek" and on top of that calls others uneducated! :)

Let's see now...

"The Byzantine Empire, also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire, was the continuation of the Roman Empire in the East during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when its capital city was Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul, which had been founded as Byzantium)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire


Now which part of the above quote don't you understand Sotos? :lol:
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Re: My political views

Postby Sotos » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:02 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:The "Eastern Roman Empire" was a Greek empire and not Italian (or Latin).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_East_and_Latin_West

Stick to what you learned at your school... e.g. how Kangaroos mate, and let the history of Cyprus and our nation to those who know it.

What did I tell you guys... he has been brainwashed to accept the hijacking of a Roman empire as "Greek" and on top of that calls others uneducated! :)

Let's see now...

"The Byzantine Empire, also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire, was the continuation of the Roman Empire in the East during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when its capital city was Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul, which had been founded as Byzantium)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire


Now which part of the above quote don't you understand Sotos? :lol:


:lol: The link you posted is "Byzantine_Empire" and it starts with "The Byzantine Empire", something that you just told us was a Greek invention. But of course this is not true. From your link:

The first use of the term "Byzantine" to label the later years of the Roman Empire was in 1557, when the German historian Hieronymus Wolf published his work Corpus Historiæ Byzantinæ, a collection of historical sources.


Although the Byzantine Empire had a multi-ethnic character during most of its history[13] and preserved Romano-Hellenistic traditions,[14] it became identified by its western and northern contemporaries with its increasingly predominant Greek element.[15] The occasional use of the term "Empire of the Greeks" (Latin: Imperium Graecorum) in the West to refer to the Eastern Roman Empire and of the Byzantine Emperor as Imperator Graecorum (Emperor of the Greeks)[16] were also used to separate it from the prestige of the Roman Empire within the new kingdoms of the West.[17]
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Re: My political views

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:13 pm

Sotos wrote:Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island. Those who spread lies and myths to the contrary are those foreigners who are trying to isolate Cyprus from the rest of Greece in order to make it easier for themselves to keep parts of our island under their occupation. Stud, I am still waiting for you to tell me why we speak Greek in Cyprus. Is the argument that we speak Greek because Cyprus was once under Greek rule? But we have also been under Persian, French, Italian, Ottoman, British etc rule as well. I can assure you that my grandfather, who was born during British rule, could not speak English at all. I can also assure you that archaeological evidence, which are far more clear than assumptions based on genetics, show that we have been speaking Greek in Cyprus for 1000s of years. How can you explain this?

If we go by genetics, then the UK should be split in 17 different countries: https://www.theverge.com/2015/3/18/8252 ... l-identity

Image

So why don't you campaign for the division of your own nation based on genetics?

P.s. My two questions were clearly highlighted since you seem to avoid answering what it doesn't suit you.


I have never been afraid to answer that question and have previously argued it was a conquest event. The archeological evidence indicates Greek began to be spoen in Cyprus around 1050 BC following what was likey a conquest event. Here is an extract from an academic paper. i hVe cited it before, you can find ut at albany.edu . It is as cogent as any otger theory.
Conclusions
The Aegean settlement of Cyprus was a complex process that cannot be attributed to a single event. Cyprus and the Aegean were well connected by the ceramics and metals trade throughout the Late Bronze Age; it is thus more likely than not that Aegean merchants would have settled on the island in small numbers. While there does seem to have been an Aegean element introduced to Cyprus in association with the “Sea Peoples” migrations of the late 13th and early 12th centuries, as indicated by Aegean features such as hearths, loom weights, Naue II-type bronze swords, horns of consecration and fibulae, the significant Aegeanization of the Cypriot ceramic assemblage in the Late Cypriot IIIA is more likely to be attributed to a continuous pattern of local imitation of Aegean imports going back to the Late Cypriot IIC than to these newcomers. That locally made, distinctively Aegean pottery (rather than expert imitations) is not found on Cyprus in this period is indicative of both the immigrants’ relatively small numbers and, perhaps, their lack of a desire to produce their own distinctive pottery as skillful imitations of it were readily available. At the same time, evidence from coastal Palestine indicates that large numbers of Cypriots joined in with the eastward-moving Aegeans in attacking the centers of Egyptian power in that region. The events of c.1200 BC thus represent as much an upheaval in Cyprus itself as they do a foreign invasion; some of the destructions on the island may even be the result of intraregional strife or Hittite intervention rather than Aegean newcomers.
More, somewhat stronger evidence of Aegean infiltration appears in Cyprus in the Late Cypriot IIIB and Cypro-Geometric IA periods. These periods are characterized by a complete reorganization of settlement patterns on the island, the introduction of new tomb types as well as limited cremation, the earliest evidence of the use of the Greek language on the island, and evidence for the presence of the Greek oral epic tradition on the island (Deger-Jalkotzty 1994). The fact that the Greeks of Cyprus adopted the Cypro-Minoan script rather than bringing the Linear B script with them is also evidence that the main Greek migration dates to this period, when knowledge of Linear B had been forgotten in Greece itself. Like the previous period, however, the Greek newcomers quickly adopted the local Cypriot material culture which was somewhat similar to their own, and there do not seem to have been discrete Greek and Eteocypriot ethnic communities, with the possible exception of Amathus (which may have been an Eteocypriot enclave). Rather, the Greek migrants seem to have taken control of most of the Cypriot cities as a warrior elite, with their language gradually coming to predominate throughout the island while the material culture remained predominantly native.
This scenario of two distinct migration phases, in which the latter is larger and more visible than the former, is attested elsewhere in the archaeological record as well as in ethnological research (Anthony 1990). The expansion of the Bronze Age Yamna culture from the Russian steppes into more westerly areas of Eastern Europe, for example, occurred in two stages. The earliest evidence is of overwhelmingly male “scouts” intruding onto the territory of other cultural complexes; later on there is a gender parity that develops. Morphological evidence indicates that this gender parity is more the result of assimilation of native females into the intruding culture complex than to migration of females from the Yamna source region. While there is evidence in Cyprus that the Aegean migrants included women (fibulae), the general pattern of migration seems to be the same. The earliest penetration of Aegean culture into Cyprus appears to precede any invasions and likely included the presence of merchants on the island. This was followed by the small migration associated with the Sea Peoples activity in the Eastern Mediterranean, and this itself was followed by a large migration some 75-100 years later of Dark Age warriors seeking wealth. The fact that Cyprus seems to have been the destination of wave after wave of Aegean migrants is consistent with the fact that migrants tend to be attracted to areas with which they already have extensive contacts (ibid.:900-901). Overall, the Aegean penetration of Cyprus can best be characterized as a series of movements by Aegean freebooters to a known region where they established themselves a warrior aristocracy. Over time, their language and facets of their culture (including certain of their mortuary practices, their tradition of epic poetry and their self-identification as Greeks) were adopted by the native population, to the point where in the Classical period, with a few exceptions (Amathus, Kition, and perhaps the populace at Idalion), the identity of the island was primarily Greek.


This was cemented by the Ptolomaic conquest around 300bc when Greek was imposed on tbw whole island, which was likely trilingual, with A semitic language Phonecian, being common ang with Greek and likely outposts of Eteo Cypriot.

Yiu seem quite happy to accept the consequences of one conquest event but not others.

as for the British study you reference, I have read the original report, not the half-baked press report in the verge. I suggest you do what I have done, find it yourself, indeed if you look carefully you will likely find a link to it that I posted.

Your understanding of the report is quite wrong. The report actually indicates that British genetics are pretty homogenous and it is only at a very detail anslysis one can distinguish any difference, which are a thin veneer reflecting limited impact of invasions .

In that respect This report has been criticised as not taking into account Danish invasions in the Viking Era, but attrubuting it to the saxons, when a proper analysis suggests saxons and Danish vikings are genetically insperable, and where other studies indicate that the biggest concentration of Socalled Saxon genes are in the Trent Valley complex, a river route thatvwaterbourne invaders would use, and where there a aschool of thought that Eastern England could there are other flaws in the somewhat superficial gentic informstion provided, which does not match the detail of that in the Cypriot studies. In the Cypriot studies Specific Y-str mutations are anf y-hsplogroups are covered. The British study does none of this, but in a less than transparent way allocates people to a pseudo nationality to represent alleged geographic origin.

In tgat respect Other critics address the so called French origin said to occur in some populations but as proper information on the badic genetic data of the detail of that in eg the Cypriot reports is missing, it is abit like kicking a cloud.

The motives of those funding the study are to develop gentic based drugs.

I btw am not campaigining for the division of Cyprus, let alone based on genetics, rather for the unity of the island free of the so called motherlands, both of whom in 1974 brought misery to Cyprus.

And i stand by my view it was a Greek invasion, not a coup d'etat, which was a lie, spread by the Greek government of the day, to disguise their involvement of their troops in the tragedy of 15th July. That in essence was how big Mak called it, despite the desperate attempt of you and "g"IG to playbword games to try to avoid that unpleasant Truth, spoken on 19th July 1974.

That i think was the day I officially finished school.
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Re: My political views

Postby Get Real! » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:17 pm

So which part of the quote below don't you understand Sotos? :lol:

"The Byzantine Empire, also referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire, was the continuation of the Roman Empire in the East during Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when its capital city was Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul, which had been founded as Byzantium)."
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Re: My political views

Postby lonewolfcypriot » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:22 pm

Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island.

You can go back in history as far as you like but you won't find a Cyprus belonging to Greece or anything like that.

It's all in your head...


Greece as a country was founded in the 19th century and we would have been part of it from the begging if we could:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


Seems like that you, as a foreigner that you are, you side with the foreigners who try to keep Cyprus isolated from the rest of Hellenism.[/quot

I can confirm that Get Real has is telling nothing but the truth and Cyprus has never been Greek.
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Re: My political views

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:33 pm

Sotos wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Sotos wrote:Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island.

You can go back in history as far as you like but you won't find a Cyprus belonging to Greece or anything like that.

It's all in your head...


Greece as a country was founded in the 19th century and we would have been part of it from the begging if we could:

During the Greek War of Independence in 1821, the Ottoman authorities feared that Greek Cypriots would rebel again. Archbishop Kyprianos, a powerful leader who worked to improve the education of Greek Cypriot children, was accused of plotting against the government. Kyprianos, his bishops, and hundreds of priests and important laymen were arrested and summarily hanged or decapitated on July 9, 1821.


Seems like that you, as a foreigner that you are, you side with the foreigners who try to keep Cyprus isolated from the rest of Hellenism.


Then why did the Archbishop excommunicate at least some of those involved in the rebellion.

The answermight lie here https://www.academia.edu/4532251/Michalis_N._Michael_The_Loss_of_an_Ottoman_Traditional_Order_and_the_Reactions_to_a_Changing_Ottoman_World_A_New_Interpretation_of_the_1821_Executions_in_Cyprus_International_Review_of_Turkish_Studies_Institute_of_Turkish_Studies_Utrecht_3_3_2013_8-36._In_English_


It appears from this it was more a local spat over tbe control of wealth and taxation, and the claim that the judicial murder of the Archbishop was connected with the fear the rebellion would spread from Greece was a later nationalist invention, which along with a few other myths, legends and fairy tales got passed off as truth.
Note I am citing a Greek speaking Cypriot as a source.
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