Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

Kifeas signature says
________________
Kifeas has spoken!
Cyprus is one, indivisible & belongs to its Cypriot people!

And then he goes on to say GCs will ever gift you 30% of their country,

Can you see Kifeas include the TCs in the ownership of Cyprus?

Mrfromng, having nothing else to utter, he picked up the above lines and tried to indicate that there is a contradiction between the two sentences.

I ask everybody else with an average IQ and above, where do you see the contradiction?

Have I or anyone else from the GCs ever said that the TCs should have no place and no rights anywhere in Cyprus? No, never! Who said this? Only your motherland Turkey and your leadership said this! They said that the GCs should have no place and no rights in the 30% of Cyprus! Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!

Have I or anyone else from the GCs ever said that the TCs should have no religious and cultural rights anywhere in Cyprus? No, never! Who said this? Only your motherland Turkey and your leadership said this! They said that they want the GCs to have no religious and cultural rights in the 30% of their country, Cyprus! Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!

Have I or anyone else from the GCs ever said that the TCs should have no educational rights in their native language anywhere in Cyprus? No, never! Who said this? Only your motherland Turkey and your leadership said this! They said they want the GCs to have no educational rights in their native language in the 30% of their country! Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!

Have I or anyone else from the GCs ever said that the TCs should have no educational rights in their native language anywhere in Cyprus? No, never! Who said this? Only your motherland Turkey and your leadership said this! They said they want the GCs to have no educational rights in their native language in the 30% of their country! Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!

Have I or anyone else from the GCs ever said that the TCs should that would be elected in a post anywhere in Cyprus should have to first take an oath in the name of Grivas or Makarios or Venizelos or Kapodistrias? No, never! Who said this? Only your motherland Turkey and your leadership said this! They said they want the GCs to take an oath in the name Ataturk, the father of the Turks and the founder of Turkey –a foreign country, if they are elected in a post in the 30% of their country! Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!

Mrfromng, when you are caught trying to cheat and with your finger in the honey pot, you do not herald accusations on those that caught you for being the ones stealing …while the honey is still dripping from your fingers! You just apologise and admit you have made a mistake!

[miltiades]

VP WROTE:

""""I want to leave my children a country where they feel they own it and belong there, where they are not treated immigrants and forced to deal with Greek in the daily lives """

How on earth can you come up with such trash I will never know. In the UK the predominant language spoken is English , those of us with any common sense know that this language is the Dominant language of this nation by virtue of the fact that more than 80 % of the people have English as their native tongue.
In Cyprus the dominant language is the Greek language by the same virtue ie 80 plus of the Cypriot population have Greek as their native tongue. What would you suggest that this people do , start learning Turkish and replace their language with Turkish. I'm all in favour of Turkish being taught in all Cypriot schools but to make comments such as yours only indicates the high level of hatred that you have for the Cypriots. My suggestion , as you expressed your wish to bring your children up in an exclusive Turkish enviroment is to pack your bags up and go to Turkey. The same advice I would also give to those wanting an exclusive Greek enviroment , pack your bags and off to Greece.

[74LB]

Kifeas - you keep saying "Read the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS!" and believe it or not I, and most likely quite a few other have attempted to locate this but I have to admit defeat.

I have seen versions 3 & 5 (the final version) of the Annan Plan and no-where can I find reference to the points you made on Page 14 of this thread.

Today, you make several references to :

"They said that the GCs should have no place and no rights in the 30% of Cyprus".

"They said that they want the GCs to have no religious and cultural rights in the 30% of their country".

"They said they want the GCs to have no educational rights in their native language in the 30% of their country".

But AP 5 (article 4 Fundamental rights and liberties) says :-

1. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms shall be enshrined in the Constitution. There shall be no discrimination against any person on the basis of his or her gender, ethnic or religious identity, or internal constituent state citizenship status. Freedom of movement and freedom of residence may be limited only where expressly provided for in this Agreement.
2. Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots living in specified villages in the other constituent state shall enjoy cultural, religious and educational rights and shall be represented in the constituent state legislature.
3. The rights of religious minorities, namely the Maronite, the Latin and the Armenian, shall be safeguarded in accordance with international standards, and shall include cultural, religious and educational rights as well as representation in federal Parliament and constituent state legislatures.

To me, this reads that the GC & TC would have equal rights regardless of where they live, does it not ?

Addtionally, you mentioned this :

"They said they want the GCs to take an oath in the name Ataturk, the father of the Turks and the founder of Turkey –a foreign country, if they are elected in a post in the 30% of their country".

I cannot find any reference in the Annan Plan to Atatürk at all ?

Can you provide the link to the "ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS" ?

Kikapu asked in one of his posts whether there were equivalent 'undertones' in an ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS! ?

I cannot recollect seeing a response to this. Are you also able to provide a link to the ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS if there is such a thing?

Many thanks.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu asked in one of his posts whether there were equivalent 'undertones' in an ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS! ?

.

The answer to my question of the above to Kifeas was, NO there were not.

[alexISS]

I want to leave my children a country where they feel they own it and belong there, where they are not treated immigrants and forced to deal with Greek in the daily lives, they should be allowed the freedom to be Turkish Cypriots and use facilites in the own language and have a say in the own future, any arrangement that will go against this ideology will be resoundingly rejected.

In other words you want a pure Turkish "homeland" in Cyprus, much like the one you have right now, only legal. I believe EVERY possible arrangement will go against this "ideology", so you can safely say "NO" to all of them without even reading them, just like Denktash used to do...

[Kikapu]

I want to leave my children a country where they feel they own it and belong there, where they are not treated immigrants and forced to deal with Greek in the daily lives, they should be allowed the freedom to be Turkish Cypriots and use facilites in the own language and have a say in the own future, any arrangement that will go against this ideology will be resoundingly rejected.

I really do not want to speak to the large majority of all Cypriots, but I would be happy to oblige VP with his request to have his own "Turkish State" in his 18% of land and Coast. So why doesn't all the Partitionist ask for this, rather than all the BS a about Trust and all that " Fucking Greek Language". Once an agreement is reached, and GC people have been compensated for their land in that 18%, then there won't be any further anger. There does not even have to be any check points or the need of the Army. This 18% then develop itself into a State all by itself to be ruled by the TC's for the TC's and whom ever else they wish to allow to live there, since they will not be in the EU, they cannot be forced to allow "Freedom of Movement" by the GC's wishing to live in that 18%, and if 50-100 years from now they want to form a Union with the rest of EU Cyprus, then that can be discussed at that time.

[74LB]

'74LondonBoy wrote:
Kikapu asked in one of his posts whether there were equivalent 'undertones' in an ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS! ?

Kikapu:
The answer to my question of the above to Kifeas was, NO there were not.

So is there such a thing as the 'ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS' or is it that there are no undertones in it ?
And is there one called 'ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS' ?

Anyone know if these are seperate from the Annan Plan itself ?

[Kikapu]

Unfortunately dear Kikapu you turned out to be "i syja tou mavrou"/the black mans fig tree, meaning everybody takes it off on you in here. GCs join here they attack you, sctozesa joins in she attacks you, pyrpolizer joins in he attacks you so it happened with bigOz. Yet i believe BigOz means well, and he will soon discover he wants nothing different than you regarding the Cyprob. He is just hot tempered.

Btw I think I do you more harm that good in supporting you against TCs so from now on I will concentrate only if a GC attacks you unfairly which is a much easier job anyway

There is only one thing I wanted to say a long time ago regarding the school you were kept captive.I haven't said it because it might have been taken by others as another effort to support you:

Those were and still are 2 schools just separated by a fence one called kykkos A and the other kykkos B. The first was for boys the other for girls. (now they are both mixed). I personally graduated from Kykkos A. I DO REMEMBER one year there were rumors among the students that on the other school the Kykkos B there were TCs before. As a student I couldn't figure out those rumors. I was watching and watching but could see no signs of Turks in there. Only students. There was no mosque in there or around the area, so I was wondering how there were TCs before? Also all land for both schools belonged to church and the church builted those schools and gave them to the state. (Hence the name Kykkos-you visited the Kykkos monastery at Troodos haven't you?) So if it belonged to the church how could it be possible that TCs had houses inside the Kykkos B school?
These were my puzzles my friend when I was a student. So I thought those rumors just came from the imagination of some students.

Your life story, and the story of your visit in Cyprus just cleared up the puzzle I had so many years ago, when I was a student.... As you said the school in which you were kept captive was Kykkos B.

Pyro,

It is most unfortunate that BigOz chose to take the route he has taken. Now he has become the "Circus Ring Leader" to most TC's on this forum as not to respond to my posts. This disappoints me to see that some TC's can still be lead by the nose, if someone shouts loud enough. Isn't what Denktas did before?. As I always said, it appears some people would rather be ruled and Dictated as to how they should behave, rather than make decisions on their own. These people really do not deserve a Democracy, because they would be happy with a Dictator, to tell them what to do. What a sorry bunch.

As you have said, I have had "run ins" with most members on this forum one time or another, but for the most part, things just fall in place and we make up and go forward, then it may happen again with one or two "Hard Core" members. Being a forgiving person, I do not hold anything personal towards others, but there are things that I'm not willing to compromise myself on, and those are Human Rights, True Democracy and Freedom of Speech and as I told BigOz few weeks ago, that I'm very allergic to Liars and Fascists, so other than those main points, I can get along with most people.

Now for the Kykkos "A" and "B" schools. I hate to tell you this, but the "B" school is in better shape than "A", and it is still getting a "face lift" as we speak. So can I say, that "my school "B" of one week in December of 1963" is better than yours.!!

I'm begining to sound like a pompos elitist American prestigious College/ University students comparing which one is rated better.

You are correct, that the two schools are only seperated by a wire fence, and right in the middle, North side of the two schools, there was a small church, which may be part of the Kykkos Monastery which we visited.

I will post some of the pictures I have taken on my trip one of these days, and the school "B" I have many, for obvious reasons.

[Pyrpolizer]

Looking forward for them Kikapu.

Zan & VP don't talk to me either. They call it "ignoring"

I am surprised you have a bigger list of "ignoring". You must be a very "bad" person

[Pyrpolizer]

'74LondonBoy wrote:
Kikapu asked in one of his posts whether there were equivalent 'undertones' in an ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS! ?

Kikapu:
The answer to my question of the above to Kifeas was, NO there were not.

So is there such a thing as the 'ANNAN PLAN constitution for the GCCS' or is it that there are no undertones in it ?
And is there one called 'ANNAN PLAN constitution for the TCCS' ?

Anyone know if these are seperate from the Annan Plan itself ?

The whole Anan plan is not only the 182 pages you read. It includes also a hell lot of attachments and laws and details of how the state would function of about 20,000 pages, including the constitutions of the component states.
Those were hard to find even before the referendum.Well hidden inside the UN web page that was specifically designed for the Anan Plan. Today that web page does not exist...

I have read a few of those.

a)too many contradictions.
b)Make your hair sting