Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

so you are saying that outward immigration from the isolated breakway state was the same after 74 as it was before?

maybe thats true but most of the TCs on this forum dont actually live in northern cyprus. but maybe i am wrong.

[turkcyp]

so you are saying that outward immigration from the isolated breakway state was the same after 74 as it was before?

maybe thats true but most of the TCs on this forum dont actually live in northern cyprus. but maybe i am wrong.

Yes my assumption was that outward immigration had stayed the same after 1974. The reasons for my assumption was quite simple actually. I usually divide the period after 3 periods.
a) 74-90s
b) 90s-2004
c) 2004-contiunuing

(a) First of all after 1974 the outward immigration definitely had reversed itself for TCs initially. This is because many TCs that have left the island during 63-74 conflict and went to Turkey turned back to island due to many reasons including social unrest in Turkey in late 70's, improving conditions in Cyprus after 1974. Believe it or not TCs had their best economic prosperity on the island between the period of 74-90 (I am talking about relative prosperity, in absolute terms every day is better than before usually).

The main reason was that there was increased economic activity on the north during these years due to many reasons like settlers coming to island, outside investment to island, Asil Nadir effect, etc. etc. TC were able to sell everything to UK till 90's (it was in 1994 due to EU court ruling that UK stopped accepting north Cyprus origin goods, For example exports to EU was $37mil in 1993 and it was $12.5 mil in 2003). So there was definitely a relative economic prosperity at north Cyprus up to 90’s.

(b) After 90’s is when really the effects of economic isolation started showing signs. And 90s were also the years where Turkey economically became very unstable and investment and cash inflow from Turkey started get distracted. So after 90’s outward immigration may have gone up again.

(c) Effects of this period are still to be seen.

But I assume that overall these two effects (period a and b) would cancel each other out. Therefore I assume that outward immigration of TCs can not be higher than it was during the periods 1960-1974 which mainly includes the worst periods for TCs on the island, period of 63-74.

That is my reasoning. If you have other reasoning to believe otherwise please share them,

Take care,

p.s. Most of the TC members being outside of this forum can be explained with so many different reasons. Like easy access to internet at overseas. I become a member of this forum last year when I have left Cyprus for personal reasons (and trust me 2004 can hardly be classified a year as outward immigration in Cyprus). It is very hard to get good connection in Cyprus with traditional dial-up modem. I am usually sick of connecting at 45kbit all the time. No DSL, no cable. That may be one of the reasons.

[MicAtCyp]

Quite honestly in my mind they should even rank lower than foreigners. Because TCs has left something in south so they have paid the price, foreigners come here and pay money to buy the land and property so they have paid the price, but settlers they did not have any price. It’s time they should start paying for their lunches like everybody else.

Now I am going to make the advocate of the devil here in supporting the settlers.And what if they are financially unable to pay any price at all? Should we throw them in the streets? Those who will eventually stay aren’t human beings? Or you think we can afford solving the problem with the GCs and the TCs and have a new problem of discrimination Vs the settlers.In my opinion someone has to accept the responsibility for those who are completely unable to "pay the price" and who else other than Turkey must do that?

In my mind the majority of the settlers are so poor that they fall in this category that I described above. But again perhaps I am wrong, we GCs don't know much about the settlers just hearsay things. Can you enlighten us on this matter, I mean just about how many of the setlers are at the near poverty level, how many on average and how many are really rich?

[MicAtCyp]

Will the GC administration take responsibility for the tc homes that they have knocked down, will they give compensation so we can build new homes on our lands that they destroyed?

Of course Brother. If your house was OK and they just knocked it down to built a road or a public building you are entitled of compensation for both the land AND the house. However if your house was built with mud bricks and it fell down by itself, or was about to fall down on people passing by, all you will get back is a nice clean building plot.
If an individual knocked down your house and he built his own (without licence from the Guardian) he will pay everything out of his pocket.That's certain.

Now I have some questions for you:
1)After 1974 people were living in tents.Suppose a TC house was in good condition and empty. Do you think they would prefer to knock it down and continue to live in a tent rather than getting in there?*Notice that almost 10 years passed by untill all refugees got a small refugee appartment.
2)From the 50s up until today people are abandoning their villages (especially the remote ones) and go living in towns.As a result he have today tens of GC villages with population ZERO. Nobody lives there only snakes. My question is,would you expect any different fate for your remote villages that you left behind?
3)This question is rather personal.You said 2 big restaurants are now on your families land.That's in Limassol right? Well is one of the 2 called "Famagusta"? If yes I will tell you something that I am sure will make you happy.

PS.* even today the refugee houses are so small and so humid, that I guarantee you if there was a TC house that could be used they would prefer that one. I visited one such refugee house the other day, and I tell you I was looking at my watch for the time to leave from there, or I would get an asthma crisis.(No I am not Ill, I just couldn’t breath)

[turkcyp]

There is something technically wrong in the forum I think,

The above two posts of MicAtCyp in this topic appeared after one day again as a seperate post.(Unless he had re posted them intentionally or unintentionally),

[Agios Amvrosios]

Brother Said:

Will the GC administration take responsibility for the tc homes that they have knocked down, will they give compensation so we can build new homes on our lands that they destroyed?

I'll personally give you cash-para to build a new home on your land. Will you agree to allow my family to return home?

Is it solved? Should I light up the souvles?

[Viewpoint]

Agios Amvrosios
Have you visited your land/property?? has anything been built on it???
If there is something there what would you want to do that was fair to both yourself and TC???

[MicAtCyp]

It is full of double standards.

Double Standards os bubble standards I don't care. If we are going to have a solution the one who caused the problem of settlers must undertake his responsibilities. If Turkey gets out of it clean, then the settlers will say "they promised me a house and land in Cyprus thats why I came. I am NOT leaving this house, I am NOT giving this land back, unless you give me another one for free.
Understand where we will then end up?

[turkcyp]

It is full of double standards.

Double Standards os bubble standards I don't care. If we are going to have a solution the one who caused the problem of settlers must undertake his responsibilities. If Turkey gets out of it clean, then the settlers will say "they promised me a house and land in Cyprus thats why I came. I am NOT leaving this house, I am NOT giving this land back, unless you give me another one for free.
Understand where we will then end up?

From which post did you get this quote of mine MicAtCyp?

Please do not just copy and paste one sentence of mine out of context (if that is what you did) because you are intentionally or unintentionally creating an impression that I am supporting double standards in land and settler issue.

A little bit ethics please,

Because the issue of double standards is taken as a general statement in my post to boulio. He was referring to double standards of Turkish politics. And I have written a post of
"how we ( as all the societies) are in a cycle of constantly applying double standards and giving the excuse of other's double standards, and how we are constantly blaming others so that we can justify our wrongs, and how we should be (everybody) self-criticizing to break the cycle."

p.s.
On the issue of who should pay for settlers new housing if they are forced out, I simply disagree with you. There is no such thing as free lunch. The personally should be found liable for it.

I would understand if you tell Turkey should provide low interest rate loans for these people, to ease the transition to a new property. But saying Turkey should build them new houses, is simply saying that “free lunch was appropriate now that you stop giving me that one you should give me another one.”

In fact I would understand even if you say that Turkey should hold all the “securitized assets" that we have been discussing about in another topic, in other words Turkey should provide long term financing for the mortgage markets to ease the pain of property problem.

But blaming everything on Turkey is a very simplistic approach employed by every GC since the beginning.

[Agios Amvrosios]

View Point Said:

Agios Amvrosios
Have you visited your land/property?? has anything been built on it???
If there is something there what would you want to do that was fair to both yourself and TC???

Buildings on some land belonging to my family have been demolished, while some building work has occured on some of the minor blocks.

But most houses and shops have been left as they were.

Although none of the building is legal and is probably defective/substandard I would pay to "compensate" the occupiers if I was allowed to return. Here is $10,000 now piss off out of my property.

All friends, see I can compromise.