Cyprus-Forum.com

[Dîrî]

You and your likes kiss Barzanî's ass and lick his balls in your dreams...

Grow some balls for yourself first - and own up to your own GENOCIDE of the Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks and Kurds... And THEN we can talk...

Before that, you can keep kissing Barzanî's ass...


Hit the bastards? Which bastards? The PKK? They're not "bastards" - but the Turkish nation is... It's a bastard nation made up of assimilated Greeks, Armenians, Kurds and Assyrians and Arabs and Persians and Georgians and Bosniacs...

You don't have shit...

You're a cultureless people who came riding on your horses from Altay and Ulan Batoor...

You were so backwards that you didn't even have a WORD for "WINDOW" and had to learn what it was when you came to Kurdistan - and now use the word "Pencere"...

You had not advanced at all from your tent-living days - and learned that wonder from us and borrowed our word "Dûrbîn" from Kurdish - for "binoculars"...

You had no idea what CHEESE was - so you learned to make it and used the Kurdish name "Peynîr" for it...

If anybody is "Bastard" then it's you and your kind... Filthy bastards... Shameless bastards... Stealing the Greek Dolmadakia, Arabic lahmacun, Armenian lukoum, and Kurdish cheese...

Go back to the steps where you belong... Barzanî is gonna screw you and your kind over a gazillion times - just like we screwed Saddam, the Shah, Assads papa and Ataturk, the son of a whore from a brothel...

[shahmaran]

Phahaah wow Diri, you sound a lot more interesting than that pussy idiot i knew from before, i will write a good response for you to stick up your back side later, coz i have to cook dinner now, but ill be back, specially for you

Merry xmas, or whatever you call it in Kurdish, im sure that was stolen from you too

[T_C]

Dolmadakia? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Dolma means "filled" in Turkish...you know....as in FILLED, like DOLMA!

I can list some words Kurds STILL to this day don't know...like SABUN (soap) for instance...

[boomerang]

Denizaksulu
You say that

So little has been written about this period of Middle-Eastern history, getting reliable sources is a hard task.

however in actual fact there is a wealth of material published on the history of the region. I could point to vast amounts of careful scholarly work which has used archival, archaeological, oral history, survey and statistical material and is pretty reliable. Of course interpretations of this material vary, sometimes widely.
Unfortunately most people either don't bother reading or don't have access to serious scholarly work and prefer to turn to popular and populist media such as Wikipedia. What really bothers me is the ease with which people turn to Wikipedia as if this was a definitive and reliable source. It isn't - it is the first resort of the lazy and opinionated in search of the lazy and opinionated.
Many Turkish scholars are working to uncover the nature of the Armenian genocide or the history of the Kurds and what prevents them doing so is not 'Turkey' or 'the Turks' - as Phoenix and other bigots would have us believe - it is fascists and nationalists (or in other words her/his political counterparts) who insist that attempting to uncover other histories is itself an unpatriotic treasonous ambition.

Many Turkish scholars are working to uncover the nature of the Armenian genocide or the history of the Kurds and what prevents them doing so is not 'Turkey' or 'the Turks' - as Phoenix and other bigots would have us believe - it is fascists and nationalists (or in other words her/his political counterparts) who insist that attempting to uncover other histories is itself an unpatriotic treasonous ambition

What a lot of horseshit ...The turkish states represents the backwards state of the nationalists for cying out loud...Your above claim in itself shows how blind you are...
One can only laugh at your statement coz the turks since the establishment of the republic have done nothing to establish any truths...On the contrary they done everything to squash anything to do with anything...How about 1955?...how about the treatment of the kurds not alone the genocide of the Armenians...have they said sorry yet?...have they corrected anything yet?...Tell me as kurd in Turkey when did you have the right to listen to the radio in kurdish?

I am begging to think you are a blinded fascist...

Copperline this was my reply to your post where I labelled turkey as a fascist state

And here your response to me, agreeing that turkey is a fascist state

Boomerang,
From at least the time of the military coup in 1980 tens of thousands of Turkish scholars, intellectuals, academics, journalists as well as other opponents of fascism, militarism and nationalism have been persecuted, sacked, imprisoned, expelled or otherwise forced into exile. That you haven't heard of them is not evidence that they don't exist; perhaps it is no more than evidence of the effectiveness of fascist or other anti-democratic rule. Copperline here you are confirming with me that turkey is a fascist state...something that I am saying
Let's remember, since it is at least in recent memory, that there were thousands of Turks who took to the streets in demonstration and remembrance of the assassination of Hrant Dink almost a year ago. You either chose to forget this or refused to let it register in your prejudiced thinking.
Clearly anti-fascism, anti-nationalism and anti-militarism has not yet been successful in Turkey but you, Boomerang, do those hundreds of thousands, indeed millions, of democrats who are Turkish a massive insult and disservice by refusing to even acknowledge their struggle.
Let us also note that during the rule of the colonel's junta in Greece, thousands of Greek democrats were forced to leave the country or were otherwise imprisoned or persecuted. In Cyprus there is also a history of intolerance and persecution of those who dissent from the official lines, north and south.
Instead of adding your voice to the persecution of those democrats and dissenters irrespective of nationality or citizenship, Boomerang, how about voicing your solidarity with them ?

Now think and think hard with your grey matter copperline, calling turkey a fascist state, does that mean I am endorsing turkey or am I criticizing...I will give you 3 guesses on this one

and then you go further endorsing was I said in my original response to you...by posting links proving turkey is a fascist state and since the formation of the republic, she has done nothing to change, rather slipping further into fascisism since 1980...Here is your post

Boomerang,
Interpretations vary because when historians (or lawyers for that matter) freely consider material they give different weight to different kinds of material. I wouldn't expect them to come to the same conclusions, thank god.
The difference between a doctrine/dogma/hard line on the one hand and open interpretation on the other hand is the difference between you Boomerang and I. You do not seem to be able comprehend that interpretation or (political) position does not automatically or mechanically flow from nationality or citizenship. You seem to share with many others on this forum the mistaken assumption that Turks follow a 'Turkish' line, British follow a British 'line', Greek Cypriots follow a Greek Cypriot line, etc, (and if any of them don't keep to their assigned sterotype then this is taken too be evidence of treachery or stupidity).
Take a look Boomerang at the following and then tell us that there aren't Turkish intellectuals and others who have been struggling against fascism and militarism and trying to uncover the histories of this region at great personal cost :
http://www.article19.org
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/europe-and-central-asia/balkans/turkey
http://www.amnesty.org.tr/yeni/
http://hrw.org/backgrounder/eca/turkey/2004/
http://hrw.org/doc?t=europe&c=turkey
Or take a recent case, that of Prof. Atila Yalya (with whom I have serious analytical disagreements but whose right to criticise official state doctrine I absolutely support) at :
http://www.isil.org/rights-alert/atilla-yayla.html
Or journalists, for example :
http://www.freemedia.at/cms/ipi/freedom_detail.html?country=/KW0001/KW0003/KW0085/&year=2005
If you're knowledge of the world is limited to the internet then at least some of these links might give you a richer set of material to think about. And Boomerang, if it is Turkish nationalism and militarism which is the greatest threat to Cyprus, why on earth are you dissing the struggle of Turkish democrats and dissidents ?

Copperline I don’t know what the hell you are talking about when in everyone of your responses, proves that turkey is a fascist state...I am gonna put it down to the fact that maybe English is a secondary language to you and leave it at that, unless you have more evidence to disprove that turkey is a not fascist state...
Further more I would like to add in order for turkey to join the 21st century she needs to become a true democracy, and embrace her violent past with the abolition of the broad meaning of article 301...either scrap it or define it...

Threfore I stand by my original response to your first post and here it is again

One can only laugh at your statement coz the turks since the establishment of the republic have done nothing to establish any truths...On the contrary they done everything to squash anything to do with anything...How about 1955?...how about the treatment of the kurds not alone the genocide of the Armenians...have they said sorry yet?...have they corrected anything yet?...Tell me as kurd in Turkey when did you have the right to listen to the radio in kurdish?

PS and with this link, could that be an admission by you, that you are a turkish national?
http://www.amnesty.org.tr/yeni/

[boomerang]

Take a look above your last post Boomers......

hey zan, I think you need to comprehend this conversation before you point anyone to anywhere...

Have you read the links and what I was saying all along or are you here just to fill the empty space of the cheer squad...and if you are the least you can do is wear some sexy clothes...

[boomerang]

Shahmaran,

Having said that, has anyone got any links in English about the recent release of the US archives regarding the period of 1974, explaining the Greek plans of invading Turkey during the time Turkey was planning to invade Cyprus? I just saw it on the news.

I'm not sure which you are referring to, but here are a couple of readily accessible sites which have a rich collection of archival material (though both from USA).

The first is the excellent 'National Security Archive' held at George Washington University (in DC) :

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/

Use the very effective search/filter system

You could spend months and months in these archives. Please note that this is not a government archive as its' title might suggest, in fact many of the archive materials have been secured by FOIA. But it is one of the best sources - certainly of online sources - available anywhere in the world.

And the second is the 'Cold War History Project' from the Wilson Centre :

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=topics.home

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=va2.browse&sort=Coverage&item=Cyprus

http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1409&fuseaction=va2.browse&sort=Coverage&item=Turkey

Warning to Boomerang : interpretations of this material vary. You'll have to stop and think carefully about this material - it will not give you a black-or-white answer. Unlike with wikipedia, the lazy man's spin machine, you'll actually have to exercise that grey matter if you want to try and make sense of the world.

And copperline where the hell did this come from...Have I been debating with you Greece invading turkey?... the answer in a big fat NO...

What I was debating with you is the fact turkey is FASCIST STATE, and then you agreeing with me...post upon post

Maybe you should take a leaf from your own post and exercise your grey matter before you go around spinning posts upon posts that have nothing to do with what we have been discussing...

[shahmaran]

Dolmadakia? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... Dolma means "filled" in Turkish...you know....as in FILLED, like DOLMA!

I can list some words Kurds STILL to this day don't know...like SABUN (soap) for instance...

AHAHAHAHHAHA!!

Indeed, also "Dolmus" means "already full", which is a name for a communal taxi, and every single word she has used as an example actually comes from Persian, so in another words they have adopted words like Dúrbún from either us or the Persians, but judging by the age of the invention i would suggest that it was probably us who thought them about it i did say she was full of shit didnt i!

What a comedian

On the other hand, I am glad you have admitted that you do support Barzani aka. "the head of the PKK" who mainly kills innocent people, but as long as they are Turks it shouldn't matter for you should it? In other words Diri, you are no better then the people you claim to oppose, unfortunately you cant even do that right by the looks of it i think you gotta do more research on your weak little culture before you can start throwing shit on another one that you know fuck all about

[CopperLine]

Boomerang

1. The world does not revolve around you and your assumptions

And copperline where the hell did this come from...Have I been debating with you Greece invading turkey?... the answer in a big fat NO...

In bold letters the name Shahmaran introduces those paragraphs that I wrote. "Greece invading Turkey" ? What on earth are you talking about ? I make no mention of this allegation. Where have you plucked this canard from ?

2. My objections to you were (a) portraying Turkey as irredeemably fascist (b) failing to acknowledge and then discounting a long history of opposition within Turkey by Turks to nationalism, fascism and militarism, and (c) your repeated assertions that the historical record is clear and obvious.

Let me take just one paragraoh that you your self highlighted :

the turks since the establishment of the republic have done nothing to establish any truths NO, WRONG. MANY DEMOCRATS AND DISSENTERS...On the contrary they done everything to squash anything to do with anything NO, WRONG. MANY DECMORATS AND DISSENTERS...How about 1955?...how about the treatment of the kurds not alone the genocide of the Armenians NO, WRONG. MANY DECMORATS AND DISSENTERS...have they said sorry yet? YES, MANY DEMOCRATS AND DISSENTERS...have they corrected anything yet? MANY DEMOCRATS AND DISSENTERS, WHERE THEY CAN...Tell me as kurd in Turkey when did you have the right to listen to the radio in kurdish YES, SINCE 2004 I THINK?

3. And no I do not think that the Turkish state is inherently fascist any more than I think that the US or Australian state is inherently fascist or liberal or whatever. I do not think that states are inherently anything except a structure of rule. And if you think his too obtuse a reply then ask yourself how, if states are regarded as inherently X, they undergo change and transformation ? Where does political change come from ? Or do you believe that once a fascist state always a fascist state; once a communist state always a communist state; etc ?

But again Boomerang you insist that you know better what any of us are thinking; you insist that you, above all others, know what we really mean; and you Boomerang insist that you know who we really are though you haven't got a shred of evidence one way or another - just a big bag of idle speculations.

[boomerang]

The world does not revolve around you and your assumptions

hey copperline lets cut the crap...Those MANY DECMORATS AND DISSENTERS are either shot or imprisoned...I am talking about the deeeeeeeeeep faaaaaaaaaascist state that seems to silence everyone...now do you get the point...Gee whiz, someone would think I am talking to a martian here...

In bold letters the name Shahmaran introduces those paragraphs that I wrote. "Greece invading Turkey" ? What on earth are you talking about ? I make no mention of this allegation. Where have you plucked this canard from ?

I am talking about your little warning to me in the same thread with all the links...If you were referring to your other post, then I am sorry I ain't a mind reader...get my drift?

My objections to you were (a) portraying Turkey as irredeemably fascist (b) failing to acknowledge and then discounting a long history of opposition within Turkey by Turks to nationalism, fascism and militarism, and (c) your repeated assertions that the historical record is clear and obvious.

Ok Mr...I am gonna put you on the spot here and I want a clear answer...What you saying is in turkey you have dissidents...But they are been silenced by the deeeeep Staaaaaaaaate?...Its caled fascism...Am i getting through to you or what? or are you disagreeing with me...

And no I do not think that the Turkish state is inherently fascist any more than I think that the US or Australian state is inherently fascist or liberal or whatever. I do not think that states are inherently anything except a structure of rule. And if you think his too obtuse a reply then ask yourself how, if states are regarded as inherently X, they undergo change and transformation ? Where does political change come from ? Or do you believe that once a fascist state always a fascist state; once a communist state always a communist state; etc ?

Now you are being ridiculous with your first sentence...equating the US and Australia as fascist, same level as turkey......We have no dissidents Coppeline...But in your own words you have them in turkey and are being silenced...
The rest of your sentence is another spin with a cherry on top...

But again Boomerang you insist that you know better what any of us are thinking; you insist that you, above all others, know what we really mean; and you Boomerang insist that you know who we really are though you haven't got a shred of evidence one way or another - just a big bag of idle speculations.

No Copperline you gave me plenty to read and I read...They all say the human rights record in turkey is appaling...coz if it wasn't you wouldn't have dissidents...right...
So no assumptions here sunshine, I am armed from your links...


PS...I would appreciate it if you address the whole of my post as I am doing to you so we can established points that we agree rather than, picking half and out of context...This makes us go around in circles...For instance the scrapping or defining article 301...along with everything that I said...Have another go in addressing everything...

I like your catch phrase by the way...see if you could learn something form your self...

[CopperLine]

Boomerang

Whatever you say