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The day after.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:13 pm

shahmaran wrote:Wow, although that's a nice read, its some pretty serious pessimsm Pyr, you almost would put one off from their desires of a solution.

So how about some speculation on the positive aspects of it?


What positive sides? Imo it will really take a long time before we start feeling and seeing the possitive aspects of re-unification.In the first years it will be far from whatever high expactations anyone was ever dreaming. The GCs will be saying "what the hell is this what we were dreaming all these years" The TCs will be saying "what the hell we got our little "partition" more or less as we wanted it, is this what we were suffering for all those years"

Why don't you give us your own expectations btw?
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Postby shahmaran » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:49 pm

To be honest i don't know what to expect nor i have had any high expectations EVER, i am more worried about the social aspects of a potential re-unification of the 2 sides then about stuff like the amount of paper work the government officials will have to endure.

Will i become a foreigner in my own country? Will i make a lot of GC friends and neighbours, or maybe enemies? Will some parts of the North loose its peace and tranquility? Will i have to learn Greek? Maybe i will make more money once the trade restrictions are gone, but then maybe i will just get swallowed by some super rich GC. I always thought Lefke needed some more excitement but then i guess it was always a mainly Turkish village so maybe i needn't worry because like you say, i probably wont see any immediate change for some years and no one is coming around here anytime soon.

I seriously don't know but I'm not sure if i want to find out either :?
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:54 pm

shahmaran wrote:I dont.



Shahmaran, you did ask, so I thought it was playing on your mind and bothers you.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:03 am

Exactly Shah there are many people like you who either don't know, or never thought about it .
They all wait to see the final details of the solution to start thinking. While more or less we all know what the acceptable solution will be for both sides.

In here we hear all sorts of nonsense and fears and high or low expectations. For example we hear you will become 2nd class citizens, the GCs will capitulate you in all aspects, from the GCs we hear they will be flooded by settlers, the Turkish army will be there to start slaughtering again, the TCs will start new problems so that Turkey invades again.

Has anybody ever thought of the day after in a rational way?
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:11 am

Really depends on the structure of the solution and what it will allow people to do,

If left with no guidlines and laws,

Mayhem will occur, people will demand their properties back, fights will break out between current occupiers and revious owners, the Armies will clash, unrest, intercommunal fighting, bombs will go off, people wil start blaming each other, in other words mayhem.

We need to what we are exactly letting ourselves in for so any solution should be detailed enough to prevent such mayhem.
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:13 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:OK this is how I see things evolving:
If you are a government employee you will still be working at your old job but somehow they will tell you the name has changed. Some very few will be transfered at will to the Federal Department. The new thing in our lives will be the Feds, but it will take time to see them around and notice what they will be actually doing.
If you are working in the private sector, you will continue doing what you are already doing.Most probably there will be more job opportunities for the TCs, especially for those who have specialized experience in economics/banking/hotel management etc

In the first year the majority of refugees from both sides will try to do some arrangements with their properties according to what the agreement has been.I expect to see a lot of paperwork at government level and a lot of activity in property sales/exchanges etc. This is when imo they rich and the speculators will jump in and basically rob the poor.

I don't expect many people packing to move back to their original villages. The majority of movement will be in areas near to what today is the border line. The majority of people who will go settle deep into the other Fed state will be pensioners or expats.

The GC banks will certainly open 2-3 branches in the "new areas" mainly for serving their already existing TC clientele. Bussiness people will start cooperating mainly for making branches in the other side, but I don't think anyone will move his production fascilities or headquarters from where they are now.

The TC fed state will increase the number of tourists it gets but because the "hen that lays golden eggs" has already started dieing in Cyprus it is doubtful it can ever boost the economy as t going doing for the GCs in the past.

What we will all notice is people traveling all over Cyprus much much easier, without any need to have a new insurance or stop at checkpoints. Generally there will be GCs and TCs mixed everywhere you look.But they won't be residents.Just people on the move. Nicosia will be the most mixed town in this respect.

The new Government structure will be more expensive that the existing one.The GCs will not like it. The TCs will be shocked when they realize what it means to having your own pocket been taxed rather than the one of the mainland Turks. The TCs will be having their own area where they will concentrate and be administered and in the begining feel national pride that at last they got their "partition". The pride will soon erode when they will realize how much they have to pay for it. The GCs will be disapointed from the very begining as they will see that re-unification did not mean going back to before 1974. They ill be allowed to return of course but very few will. They will get their properties but they will not be able to make any use of them. In the end they will be thinking what have they gained other than an unecessary "bela".
I don't even expect the Famagustans to be happy returning to their ghost town. Most propably they ill have to wait for at least 5 years until the infrastucture is completed and God knows how many will abandon their existing places of living to ever return.

Generally within the first year I believe nothing much will change, and everybody will feel that they never expected the solution to be such a dull thing. I believe changes will come very very slowly and it will take at least 30 more years to have some New Cypriot sense for the people living here.



Thats a pretty 'grim' picture you paint Pyro. I for one would not mind having my home next to a GC (or vice versa). Saying kalimeras everymorning with a smile and expect the same. Having lived in the UK since 1964, next door to the dredges of society in some instances, and in some instances next to the nicest people , who happened to be GCs, I can do this in my HOME land - Cyprus. I would find it easy. Some, will not and it will take many years. As mentioned before, expats of both communities would be a good example to living in a mixed society. They have had the experience. I wonder what percentage of GC and TCs would like to return to their properties, if possible? (after restoration ofcourse) Admin and politics , I leave to experts to sort.
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Postby shahmaran » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:14 am

denizaksulu wrote:
shahmaran wrote:I dont.



Shahmaran, you did ask, so I thought it was playing on your mind and bothers you.


I know deniz, sorry, it wasnt meant to sound defensive :)
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Postby T_C » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:50 am

I DONT BELIEVE IT! :evil:

I just spent an hour and a half writing such a good post but lost the whole lot by pressing preview, not noticing the ethernet cable had accidentaly been pulled out!!! :shock: :bawling: :bawling:

When I came back it just gave me a blank canvas!!! :evil: :bawling:
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Postby utu » Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:03 am

T_C wrote:I DONT BELIEVE IT! :evil:

I just spent an hour and a half writing such a good post but lost the whole lot by pressing preview, not noticing the ethernet cable had accidentaly been pulled out!!! :shock: :bawling: :bawling:

When I came back it just gave me a blank canvas!!! :evil: :bawling:



If its any consolation, I know exactly what that is like...
As the Japanese would say: Shigata Ga Ni.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:43 am

Viewpoint wrote:Really depends on the structure of the solution and what it will allow people to do,

If left with no guidlines and laws,

Mayhem will occur, people will demand their properties back, fights will break out between current occupiers and revious owners, the Armies will clash, unrest, intercommunal fighting, bombs will go off, people wil start blaming each other, in other words mayhem.

We need to what we are exactly letting ourselves in for so any solution should be detailed enough to prevent such mayhem.


And what is the possibility of that if to be the reality?
Would your side vote yes to such a solution?

I am asking you to think of the day after the day a reasonable/acceptable solution BY BOTH SIDES is signed.

But as usual you opted to use your fear creating tactics.
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