Cyprus-Forum.com

[Mr. T]

It is impossible for Skynews to brainwash if one doesn't watch it!

Are you saying that western media is being allowed into S.Ossetia? The BBC has made it clear that civilians in S.O. have been killed by the Georgian military. Perhaps you are the one who has been brainwashed if you honestly don't believe Russians have not killed civilians in the apartment buildings in Gori. I have even heard a Russian commentator admitting that Russian accuracy is of a poor standard which comes as no surprise.

The fact remains that Russia has no international right to attack Georgia. It has now admitted it is attempting to kill Georgians in Abkhazia!!! What excuse will it make up as a reason to have done this?

With the Russian blockade of Georgian ports Ukraine has said it will probably not allow the Russian navy back into Ukranian ports. Will Russia take this as an excuse to attack this more powerful nation? I doubt it as it would be able to fight back but they will have plans to undermine the government there.

I am aware of the USSR passport/citizenship situation. This certainly is something that is very much to Russia's advantage and a route they could use elsewhere to support others in distabalising independent countries.

Of course Russia has a vast amount of oil. It is this which has helped the Russian state in recent years and more so the politicians and their oligarch cronies who have siphoned off the equivalent of billions of US$ for themselves. Russia doesn't want the West to have Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan oil so I am a bit confused by your comment.

[Mr. T]

miltiades, mostly you are right.
Mr.T - you are so sure about everything you said....why? Ossetia - is a part of Georgia...? this is the fact ?
Ossetia was part of Soviet Union as Ukraine, Georgia, and they declared their independence in 1990...
90% of the population are russian passports holder. during 3 days more then 30000 of ppl have left Ossetia and Russia help them.
thousands couldnt leave coz Georgians shot all roads, especcialy with medical transport.
i am watching the news (ok maybe is russian interpreation) but ppl crying, blood, children...
russian set up mobile hospitals, bringing food, water...
Do you think...is it still possible for Ossetia to get to Georgia (as its part)....do you think they are dreaming about that?

I am aware that South Ossetia is a part of Georgia but the fact that that part of the country declared independence does not give it automatic independence. This has to be agreed by the remainder of the country.

I have no doubt that many very unfortunate people are dead and others crying in South Ossetia.

Please let us know whether Russian news is making it clear that people,including children have been killed by the Russian military in other parts of Georgia and also that Russian planes have been shot down.

[Raymanoff]

Sorry, we are not on the same page when it comes to a knowledge of this conflict... Russians are nowhere near the pipe, they will have to occupy whole Georgia to hold control over it and infact the pipe is not operational since its partially destroyed on Turkish territory. And told tell me about weapon accuracy when you kill each other in IRAQ & Afganistan, when you destroy dozens of families by precision airstrikes... in fact air strikes are called to take out 1! sniper. You wanna tell me more about YOUR countries military expertise? Forget the PIPE, this conflict is about 1 person: Saakashvili, his shameless attempt to bend over and sell out whole region to the West... he hangs European flag behind him when he makes statements (in English only). 1 thing he is good at: Information War.

Yes, of course there were casualties after Russian bombings, but how can you compare 38 killed civilians vs 2000 killed by Georgians already. Russia begs for international journalists to come in the region... it was stated again in today's Press Conference held by Foreign Ministry.

Democratic Georgia shat off all Russian TV channels, arrested Russian TV Crews (destroyed all material), blocked .RU domain zone. This guy is a shameless dictator..plain and simple and he will be on trial for genocide, remember my words. This will not just cool off so easy...

Already many European political independent analysts stated that Saakashvilli misinterpreted and overestimated US relationship with Georgia by fearlessly invading S.Osetia. This will end his political career pretty soon. Germany will never accept Georgia into NATO after this... pretty much his game is over.

If you need to hear the other side of the story in English, watch HI Quality broadcast here: http://www.russiatoday.com/

[Raymanoff]

Mr. T, Russia acknowledges its airstrikes in press conferences earlier, it also confirmed loosing planes... we know civilians are dead, its heartbreaking to watch this but i beg you, see the footage from the S.Ossetia from the link above and stop this nonsense man. Why the fuck these stereotypes again? The communism is over, wake up re...

[dinos]

Sorry, we are not on the same page when it comes to a knowledge of this conflict... Russians are nowhere near the pipe, they will have to occupy whole Georgia to hold control over it and infact the pipe is not operational since its partially destroyed on Turkish territory. And told tell me about weapon accuracy when you kill each other in IRAQ & Afganistan, when you destroy dozens of families by precision airstrikes... in fact air strikes are called to take out 1! sniper. You wanna tell me more about YOUR countries military expertise? Forget the PIPE, this conflict is about 1 person: Saakashvili, his shameless attempt to bend over and sell out whole region to the West... he hangs European flag behind him when he makes statements (in English only). 1 thing he is good at: Information War.

Yes, of course there were casualties after Russian bombings, but how can you compare 38 killed civilians vs 2000 killed by Georgians already. Russia begs for international journalists to come in the region... it was stated again in today's Press Conference held by Foreign Ministry.

Democratic Georgia shat off all Russian TV channels, arrested Russian TV Crews (destroyed all material), blocked .RU domain zone. This guy is a shameless dictator..plain and simple and he will be on trial for genocide, remember my words. This will not just cool off so easy...

Already many European political independent analysts stated that Saakashvilli misinterpreted and overestimated US relationship with Georgia by fearlessly invading S.Osetia. This will end his political career pretty soon. Germany will never accept Georgia into NATO after this... pretty much his game is over.

If you need to hear the other side of the story in English, watch HI Quality broadcast here: http://www.russiatoday.com/

Ray, was part of this this intended for me?

[Mr. T]

Sorry, we are not on the same page when it comes to a knowledge of this conflict... Russians are nowhere near the pipe, they will have to occupy whole Georgia to hold control over it and infact the pipe is not operational since its partially destroyed on Turkish territory. And told tell me about weapon accuracy when you kill each other in IRAQ & Afganistan, when you destroy dozens of families by precision airstrikes... in fact air strikes are called to take out 1! sniper. You wanna tell me more about YOUR countries military expertise? Forget the PIPE, this conflict is about 1 person: Saakashvili, his shameless attempt to bend over and sell out whole region to the West... he hangs European flag behind him when he makes statements (in English only). 1 thing he is good at: Information War.

Yes, of course there were casualties after Russian bombings, but how can you compare 38 killed civilians vs 2000 killed by Georgians already. Russia begs for international journalists to come in the region... it was stated again in today's Press Conference held by Foreign Ministry.

Democratic Georgia shat off all Russian TV channels, arrested Russian TV Crews (destroyed all material), blocked .RU domain zone. This guy is a shameless dictator..plain and simple and he will be on trial for genocide, remember my words. This will not just cool off so easy...

Already many European political independent analysts stated that Saakashvilli misinterpreted and overestimated US relationship with Georgia by fearlessly invading S.Osetia. This will end his political career pretty soon. Germany will never accept Georgia into NATO after this... pretty much his game is over.

If you need to hear the other side of the story in English, watch HI Quality broadcast here: http://www.russiatoday.com/

Sorry that my knowledge of the conflict is not as good as yours as you are make apparent that you are an expert on the situation. I have looked at the website you mention and now understand completely that Russia is the goodie goodie in this situation at least according to them.

Who said Russian troops were near the pipeline? It was attempted bombings of the pipeline that were reported. Whether there were bombings I don't know as I wasn't there.
If you think that the fact that the pipeline has not been used since last Wednesday and will,no doubt be working again very soon, has anything to do with Russia wanting to stop oil bypassing Russia's control you must be living in a fantasy world.

The following is a quote from Debka.

'The Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.'

As far as my country's military expertise is concerned just read your history books and think about the SAS. We have not one every battle but did not control much of the world through military ineptitude. Our victories were not based on strength of numbers unlike those of the USSR. I remind you it was a Russian who spoke about the poor accuracy of Russian weapons in Georgia.

I think you are confusing the UK with the USA when it comes to killing your own forces, those of your enemie and civilians. It happens with all armies but is rare with us. I remember my father saying that in World War 2 it was safer to be fighting Americans than being on their side.

I am no fan of American policy and believe that Bush is a plonker to say the least. Perhaps the Georgian leader has learned well from America but it is the current mindset of the Russian leaders which is of concern and in having no regard for the territorial integrity of the independent country of Georgia one can but wonder what else they have planned. Communism has nothing to do with it and I have not said it has despite your thoughts.

I note your words re a genocide trial and also Germany not admitting Georgia into NATO. We will see whether you are correct. Time will prove you wrong.

Finally journalists trying to enter S.Ossetia have reported being fired at with machine guns, apparently not by Georgians nor Russians but possibly by Chechnians who are helping the Russian forces.

[dinos]

Couple of points here...
1. Bush could not control militarily defenseless Iraq for 5-1/2 years. I don't think there's any risk of him actually picking on anyone his own size. As for supporting Georgia, he'll do so in words but not actions. Another use for Kikapu's words of wisdom - "if you can't f*ck a friend, who can you f*ck?"

2. The BTC oil pipeline routes right up to South Ossetia. If Russia takes control of that, the global political / economic landscape will drastically change. While this is pure speculation on my part, there has to be some strategic aim for the Russians to undertake this action which is certain to be used against them in the media.

I'm not very astute when it comes to military / political affairs. But maybe the Russians are also making a point; that if Bush attacks Iran, he'll have not one, but two proper militaries to deal with...

Are you therefore suggesting that Iran should be unhindered and allowed to become a nuclear power , bearing in mind the theocratic principles applicable in this nation which respect death more than life and therefore the use of nuclear weapons to cause maximum destruction would not be a major consideration since good old Allah would be in heavens awaiting !
The Iranian regime is hell bent on the destruction of Israel , it will not succeed on the contrary it will suffer irreparable damage and will take tens of years to recover . As for Russia , she will not stand in the way any more than she stood in the way of Israel in its wars against the Arab nations.
Russia has too much to lose and will not antagonize the West .

I've read this a couple of times and cannot understand why you posted this. This thread is not about whether the Iranians should have nuclear weapons but about Russia and Georgia duking it out over Ossetia. I indicated a couple of potential reasons as to why this is going on. Because, again, this thread is about Russia and Georgia, I'll refrain from adding my opinion as to what should or should not be done about Iran.

However, since you saw fit to quote my post, I now propose what I think is a valid question: If Bush and Blair could not control Iraq - a country with zero military defenses - for 5-1/2 years, how long do you think it'd take to dominate Iran - who does?

As to your final point, Russia is already antagonizing the west by invading Ossetia. The real point, however, is that the two countries will not face each other in a proper war, or even a proxy war because the costs are too high. The Russians have been diplomatically backed into a corner by western nations. This would impel a fight or flight response in anybody. They need oil just like anybody else. Were an invasion of Iran to commence, the Russians may very well take it as an attack on their own infrastructure (albeit in a roundabout way). This is how wars start - one guy decides unequivocally that he's right and screw anybody else. The people getting screwed reach their breaking point and start defending themselves, and voila.

You must always understand where other people stand when conducting diplomacy with them. A diplomatic campaign of poking and prodding will usually backfire with nasty consequences. This holds true for any country in the world and Iran is no different.

[miltiades]

Here is why I posted the above Dinos , in response to your below quote !!
"""I'm not very astute when it comes to military / political affairs. But maybe the Russians are also making a point; that if Bush attacks Iran, he'll have not one, but two proper militaries to deal with...""

[Nikitas]

"Already many European political independent analysts stated that Saakashvilli misinterpreted and overestimated US relationship with Georgia by fearlessly invading S.Osetia."

This echoes what happened in 1974, when psycho dictator Ioannides thought he had the full support of the west in overturning Makarios.

The Saakashvili dude must have the diplomatic instincts of an amoeba. He stands in front of Fox and CNN cameras for hours (!) talking English. He has not been told that it is customary for national leaders to speak their own language when they want to underscore the dignity of their nation, so he comes across like a total lackey of the Americans.

For pipeline fans, I suggest you take a look at the maps of all the pipelines in the area. Georgia can be bypassed and to a large extent has been by lines that go to southern Turkey. Which coincidentally were bombed recently.

[Oracle]

BBC Radio 2 broadcasted a solitary interview, where it was stated that Russia has been preparing for this war for a long time now, and which it did in fact start.

No counterbalance was offered.