Cyprus-Forum.com

[Anglo]

No, you're off on a tangent here - the UK Govt simply does not believe the Cyprus situation is best solved on a case by case basis in law courts. It belives in a comprehensive politically negotiated settlement along the line sof the A Plan. It's nothing to do with recognition.

Then why the British legal system adopted the Loizidou case as a precedent?

The British system of government has the separation of powers: the legal part is independent of government, therefore the judiciary act independently of the politicians/lawmakers.

Exactly right! That is why the enforcement of the RoC court rulings by the British courts is perfectly fine. The court ruling of the Orams will not go through the government through the British legal system. Therefore forget the so-called public policy stories!

We appear to be going round in circles. You say that the public policy exemption from enforcement won't count even though you admit it exists...

[Anglo]

Thanks Kifeas for the support. I was not very well informed of the Orams case and it seems Anglo tried to trick me by initially saying there was an arrest warrant against her (based on a court decision at default), whereas in the end he says the case is still in courts. Both of which proved lies. One must be very careful when discussing with these guys.

Firstly, I wasn't trying to trick you, you just decided to misinterpret what I said to justify your smear. All I said was that there was a judgement in her absence.

And, unless Kifeas can prove otherwise, the apeal has not been ruled upon yet - so as yet it is not on its way to the UK courts.

[MicAtCyp]

Firstly, I wasn't trying to trick you, you just decided to misinterpret what I said to justify your smear. All I said was that there was a judgement in her absence.

And, unless Kifeas can prove otherwise, the apeal has not been ruled upon yet - so as yet it is not on its way to the UK courts.

Yes you were. This is what you said:

She appeared in court, stated her case,was found guilty, and is now appealing to the RoC Supreme Court.

Whereas the truth is she did not originally appear at the court and that’ s why the court issued an arrest warrant against her.When she finally appeared (5 weeks later) because of that arrest waarant, she apologised and the arrest warrant was lifted.

Furthermore this is what you also said:

apparently Linda Orams' was given a summons in Greek without explanantion and by the time she had got it translated a judgement was made in default.

Whereas the truth is that judgement in her absense was because she refused to appear at the court. Obviously she (like you in your above post) thought she could play with article 34.2, forgetting that contempt of court will lead to her arrest. When she realised that, she finally appeared. The court was actually very linear in having both its judgement and the arrest warrant suspended.

But what the hell in February 2005 she lost again!!

[Anglo]

Firstly, I wasn't trying to trick you, you just decided to misinterpret what I said to justify your smear. All I said was that there was a judgement in her absence.

And, unless Kifeas can prove otherwise, the apeal has not been ruled upon yet - so as yet it is not on its way to the UK courts.

Yes you were. This is what you said:

She appeared in court, stated her case,was found guilty, and is now appealing to the RoC Supreme Court.

Whereas the truth is she did not originally appear at the court and that’ s why the court issued an arrest warrant against her.When she finally appeared (5 weeks later) because of that arrest waarant, she apologised and the arrest warrant was lifted.

Furthermore this is what you also said:

apparently Linda Orams' was given a summons in Greek without explanantion and by the time she had got it translated a judgement was made in default.

Whereas the truth is that judgement in her absense was because she refused to appear at the court. Obviously she (like you in your above post) thought she could play with article 34.2, forgetting that contempt of court will lead to her arrest. When she realised that, she finally appeared. The court was actually very linear in having both its judgement and the arrest warrant suspended.

But what the hell in February 2005 she lost again!!

Come on, stop debating this issue as if the GC law is being applied here in a systematic and non-partisan way. The courts are the tools for the political objectives of the GC government and you know it.

And stop your accusations of lying - the appeal for this case will probably be in September - no date has been set yet and Kifeas was talking out of his backside when he said it was on its way to the UK courts. If you are hellbent on twisting my words to suit your argument it shows that you don't have any confidence that the truth is on your side. Now who's the liar?

[MicAtCyp]

Anglo,

what we are discussing here is whether the decisions of the RoC courts will be enforced in Europe. Your only point so far (taken directly out of some TC "independent" legal advisors of property buyers in the occupied) is that these decisions will not be enforced because they are against public policy in the UK. As if there is any Country in the world whose public policy is to encourage it's citizens to be receivers of stolen goods or be treasspassers or conspire in tresspassing...

No I did not say you are lying on the issue of her appeal at the supreme court. I accused you of giving me misleading or manipulative answers.I haven’t discussed much with you to know if that was intentional or was due to hastiness, so I will now put my accusation " in pending verification mode" for the time being.

[Anglo]

Anglo,

what we are discussing here is whether the decisions of the RoC courts will be enforced in Europe. Your only point so far (taken directly out of some TC "independent" legal advisors of property buyers in the occupied) is that these decisions will not be enforced because they are against public policy in the UK. As if there is any Country in the world whose public policy is to encourage it's citizens to be receivers of stolen goods or be treasspassers or conspire in tresspassing...

No I did not say you are lying on the issue of her appeal at the supreme court. I accused you of giving me misleading or manipulative answers.I haven’t discussed much with you to know if that was intentional or was due to hastiness, so I will now put my accusation " in pending verification mode" for the time being.

A concilliatory yet patronising response, but thanks all the same.
And watch your manipulation - the public policy of the UK is not to encourage 'tresspassers/buyers of stolen property' etc but to settle the Cyprus issue with a comprehensive political solution - not to allow 100,000 lawsuits to completely screw up any shred of goodwill left.

[MicAtCyp]

the public policy of the UK is not to encourage 'tresspassers/buyers of stolen property' etc but to settle the Cyprus issue with a comprehensive political solution - not to allow 100,000 lawsuits to completely screw up any shred of goodwill left.

Of course this is the definition you give to public policy, which in my opinion is totally wrong. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen if and when UK refuses to oblidge.
By the way in case your country wins the battle,(which Is near zero imo) be prepared to see how many new bright ideas our own public policy will generate on how things should run in the UK.

[RAFAELLA]

Turkish Company The Net Holding is starting building of 250 apartments on Autumn in occupied Famagusta district
Turkish Cypriot daily VATAN newspaper (28.07.05) reports that the Turkish NET Holding company is starting in autumn the building of 250 new apartments in the occupied Famagusta district.

According to statements made by Mr Haluk Elver, the executive committee vice chairman of the company, the project will take place in a 26 donum plot in the occupied Famagusta district. Mr Elver stated that the project for the building of the 250 apartments will start next autumn and will be finished within a year.

In addition, Mr Elver stated that the NET Holding will make more investment in occupied Cyprus. As he said they will add 90 new rooms at the Merit Crystal Cove Hotel which is located in occupied Kyrenia. This investment will cost the company around 7 million US dollars, as he said.

Mr Elver stated that at present immovable property prices compared to the past have sharply increased in occupied Cyprus and reached to 200-250% level. He also stated that the demand for immovable property comes mainly from British, Israelis and Turks who live abroad.
http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/A ... enDocument
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Tcs never stop reminding their goodwill towards the Gcs, amasing!

[garbitsch]

When you guys are going to stop the expropriation of the Turkish properties in South? Are you going to give the properties back to their owners? Are you going to give the part of Larnaca airport back to its Turkish Cypriot owner?

[RAFAELLA]

When you guys are going to stop the expropriation of the Turkish properties in South? Are you going to give the properties back to their owners? Are you going to give the part of Larnaca airport back to its Turkish Cypriot owner?

Minister hits back over airport land claim
By Elias Hazou

INTERIOR Minister Andreas Christou has dismissed a Turkish Cypriot’s claims to ownership of a large portion of the land on which Larnaca airport is built.
Huseyin Helvacioglu, a refugee from Larnaca now living in Kyrenia, told the bi-communal weekly publication Dialogue that the land, belonging to himself and his brother, had been expropriated and now he wanted it back.

Information is sketchy as to whether Helvacioglu has initiated legal proceedings against the Republic. But assuming he does, he will be the first Turkish Cypriot living in the north to seek compensation for properties requisitioned by the state.

Helvacioglu, seen outside Larnaca airport with his title deeds in hand, said the government built the premises without his permission.

His challenge comes in the wake of a string of lawsuits by Greek Cypriots against persons using their property in the occupied areas. Helvacioglu freely admitted that it was because of these actions that he had decided to go public about what he termed “illegal expropriation by the state”.

He is seeking £100 million in compensation for unauthorized exploitation of his property, citing the landmark case of Greek Cypriot Titina Loizidou who was awarded one million dollars for her house in Kyrenia.

But Interior Minister Andreas Christou, though confirming Helvacioglu’s demands, downplayed the possibility of the case going to court in the Republic, and ruled out any compensation before a settlement of the political issue on the island.

Moreover, Christou disputed the evidence presented by the Turkish Cypriot man, saying that the government had only expropriated 3,100 square meters of the total 110,000 square meters of land belonging to Helvacioglu.

According to Christou, who in his capacity as Interior Minister also acts as the Guardian of Turkish Cypriot properties in the south, the 1974 value of the land was £22,000; so the compensation, if awarded, would be that amount plus accrued interest.

The Guardian was set up in 1991 to accept expropriations on behalf of Turkish Cypriots. The main argument at the time was that Turkish Cypriots living in the north could not be contacted and were not allowed by the north’s regime to cross over to the south.

But with the opening of the checkpoints since April 2003 that line of reasoning has been called into question. The government says, however, that restitution and compensation can be implemented with a far-reaching and consensual exchange of properties, which can only be brought about with a solution to the Cyprus problem.

Christou further said that compensation was determined by the Land Registry department and then deposited into the Guardian’s fund, to be collected by the claimant after reunification. If the claimant did not agree with the sum awarded, he could then contest this in court.

A landmark case last year, involving the return of a house to Turkish Cypriot Arif Mustafa, was put on hold when the Supreme Court suspended an initial order to return the property to its original owner. Though the court accepted Mustafa’s claim as rightful, it postponed execution of the order when the Attorney-general appealed the decision. The issue had deep political undertones, as the house is currently used by Greek Cypriot refugees.

Unofficial figures show that around 12 to 13 per cent of land in the south belongs to Turkish Cypriots, most of whom now live in the north while others have emigrated.

Fears of a wave of similar claims by Turkish Cypriots have not materialised, although plaintiffs could take recourse to the European Court of Human Rights if their demands are not satisfied by the Republic.

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