Cyprus-Forum.com

[jesus]

I am not too sure if this is relevant to the topic but I strongly believe, there would be less problems if politicians didnt exist.

But I can't think of an alternative to them though.

[Dhavlos]

gosh, that 'thing' is like a virus! get rid of him quick!


back to topic...i think it is true that many cypriots follow the leader, they dont question, or are as sceptical as Brits are about politics(ignoring the cyProb)/politicians

[Bananiot]

Just ignore the cyber tiger, why do you bother to converse with him? Cannedmoose, I saw your post the first time, no need to repeat it thrice. You are spot on about AKEL, being a stalinist party it is organised around so called democtatic centralism. DIKO and EDEK are basically Bathist parties, thus they are no better and DISI allows some form of divergence but look at what happened to it with the splinter group that set up the European Party. Unfortunately even now in the 21st century, politics are at an embryonic stage in Cyprus. The leaders are not seriously questioned and this is obvious when they appear on television in interviews. The interviewer makes a special effort not to make it difficult for the politician, probably because his party ensured his position at the tv station. When Papadopoulos, for example, gave an inter tv canal interview, all interviewers were firing friendly fire and no one bothered to ask about his shortcomings. In short, most people owe something to a party and the party is always exploiting this. After all, do you know another country where everyone's aspiration is to be appointed somewhere in the government?

[cannedmoose]

Just ignore the cyber tiger, why do you bother to converse with him? Cannedmoose, I saw your post the first time, no need to repeat it thrice.

Sorry re, I kept trying to make it the top of the thread so we could get past his nonsense.

You are spot on about AKEL, being a stalinist party it is organised around so called democtatic centralism. DIKO and EDEK are basically Bathist parties, thus they are no better

That's an interesting comparison, I'll have to look into that.

DISI allows some form of divergence but look at what happened to it with the splinter group that set up the European Party.

Which provides evidence to the other parties that their tight rein is the correct policy, otherwise factionalism will end up degrading them from the inside. I think you mean European Parties now, since you now have the European Democrats (or whatever they're calling themselves) and Evrodi... a faction within a faction... nice

Unfortunately even now in the 21st century, politics are at an embryonic stage in Cyprus. The leaders are not seriously questioned and this is obvious when they appear on television in interviews. The interviewer makes a special effort not to make it difficult for the politician, probably because his party ensured his position at the tv station. When Papadopoulos, for example, gave an inter tv canal interview, all interviewers were firing friendly fire and no one bothered to ask about his shortcomings. In short, most people owe something to a party and the party is always exploiting this. After all, do you know another country where everyone's aspiration is to be appointed somewhere in the government?

That's been my take on things as well. A couple of years ago I knew absolutely bugger all about Cypriot politics and wanted to know even less. The more I find out, the more I'm convinced that Cypriot politics has not yet evolved into a modern 'steady-state' form of politics, in which party policies replace personalities as the driving force in the organisation. Ironically, I think AKEL operates closest to this line, probably by virtue of the party's longer history and its adherence to an identifiable and strong ideology.

I also think that DHSY and EDEK are moving in this direction also, albeit slowly because they are still very much dominated by their founders. In a way you can look at the DHSY split as a sign of the party growing up and working out exactly where its members stand. It also means that Anastasiades should have a party united behind him, rather than anti-AP factions calling for his head.

DHKO are almost a mystery to me. It seems that they act like a centre-right party, yet the claim is that they are EDEK-esque and are social democratic - at least according to Papadopoulos declaration when he stated, 'we are a social democratic party'. They remain a bit of an enigma in that respect, and don't seem to have any clear direction beyond 'steady as she goes' and a strong stance on the Cyprob.

Does any of this make sense? I'm getting to grips with this slowly, but it's always helpful to see if I'm glaringly out anywhere.

[turkcyp]

deleted by the author...

[cannedmoose]

Turkcyp, I apologise if my discussion with bananiot has somewhat deflected this issue, therefore, let me return to the last serious post before our thread was so rudely interrupted. As you have indicated, Alexandros deserves better than to ruin a good thread.

Therefore:

We need a fair and just solution based on the principles we have agreed upon, that is, bicommunal, bizonal federation that will unite Cyprus within the EE. This will provide decades of uninterrupted development, long enough for old resentment feelings to die away. The generations that will follow will not be poisoned like our luckless generation and this will put pay to the sick aspirations of the nationalists of both communities.

I agree Bananiot. I think the 'one country - two states' solution is the only viable solution and the one that relates closest to the near-agreements we've experienced so far.

You're also right that as time passes and people gradually get used to living in such a situation, the old hatreds should recede - they will always be there, but the more the past can be confronted (I won't bang on about my 'Shoah-esque' project any more since clearly no-one else is interested ), the more Cypriots will recognise that they did wrong to each other and have more to gain by doing right by each other. Fear breeds on ignorance, and nationalism breeds on fear. The less ignorant we all become about each other, how we think, how we act, the less nationalism will be a factor in a common future. At least that's the theory.

[Alexandros Lordos]

My first act as moderator was to delete a large part of the conversation which took place above, since it was little more than spam.

Achilles, your anger - perhaps righteous to an extent - is welcome, but your insults are not.

[Dhavlos]

Alexandros Lordos,

I have seen your powerpoint presentation from your website, and it has helped me form a greater understanding of what people from both sides believe.
I imagine it is a truer representation of views than those expressed by some on this website!

I hope your conclusions are taken on board by those involved in negotiations.

[MicAtCyp]

After Alex I also did a lot of sweeping on pages 6,7 and 8 and also written my comments. This is an effort to make a better forum. I apologise for the off-topic post, but I think we must make a start some day. Erolz will be doing the job too as soon as he is back from his trip, so maybe I will not "ruin it".

Please do not reply to this post as we will continue off topic...If you have any comments please send me a PM

[Alexandros Lordos]

Various posts about the 1960 constitution and veto rights were turned into a separate thread - it is an interesting enough topic in itself, but not relevant to this particular thread.

You can find the new thread at:

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2669