Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

[In just 1 or 2 years time we will overcome the biggest obstacle(isolation) infront of us... The rest will follow and we will be able to rapidly develop in all fields. .

What a dreamer. You have done nothing but decline in the last 35 years. You are a lazy, greedy, thieving bunch of good for nothings and the Brits and EU are overly generous in thinking we should take you all back (what is left of the TCs). In reality you are a hindrance and a worthless intrusion into our future prosperity and as far as I am concerned you and your Taksim-inspired belligerents can disappear to Turkey with the worthless Settlers.

Just give the stolen territory back, and you can disappear to dream your dreams in Turkish pastures ...

[halil]

I was surprised to read that the number of Jews living in Germany was increasing rapidly, and will soon be reaching pre-WW2 levels.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ogromnacht
Remember 90% of Jews in Germany were murdered (210,000 out of an estimated pre-war population of 240,000) and similar proportions in various Eastern European countries (e.g. estimated 3 million Jews from total of 3.3 million in Poland) instigated again by German propaganda and direct action, leading to the figure of nearly 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust. This really was attempted genocide.

Some TCs like to suggest that they too have been subject to attempted genocide, and that the Turkish invasion in 1974 was a 'peace operation' to prevent such a thing happening. Yes, there were intercommunal killings, but to suggest TCs were subject to attempted genocide is, at best, gross exaggeration, and, at worst, complete fabrication with intent to promote crude propaganda.

So, the words 'attempted genocide' can be applied to actions against European Jews in 1930s and 40s, but not, in any way, to actions against TCs in Cyprus in the 1950s, 60 and 70s.

I salute the courage of Jews living in Germany, a country with a well-established history of attempted genocide against that community. Clearly any Jew now living in Germany must have faith in the social and legal systems which ensure safety and equality for all. This courage allows them to live within a modern, democratic, prosperous nation at the heart of Europe with immense benefits for future generations of those courageous Jews.

Given that Jews can show such courage to live within a society which previously attempted to wipe them of the face of the planet I fail to see why TCs hide behind the 'protection' of 40,000 Turkish troops, supposedly preventing a mythical genocide against them, and do not themselves show courage to embrace a reunified Cyprus. Within a unified Cyprus they will be 'protected' not by Turkish troops, but by the fair and democratic processes of law, not only within Cyprus itself, but also from the EU and the UN.

Despite the horrors of attempted genocide against them in 1930s-40s, Jews are not afforded 'special' status within the judicial or electoral systems in Germany. As a minority community within the general population they live within the standard democratic principle of 'one man, one vote'. Why should TCs demand special privileges in any future negotiated settlement?

I would contend that by hiding behind the mirage of 'attempted genocide' by GCs, the 'peace operation' in 1974, the 'protection' of 40,000 Turkish troops, the demands for special rights in a reunified Cyprus, the TCs show themselves to have none of the courageous characteristics shown by Jews living in Germany today. Such thinking will lead inevitably to a self-imposed genocide - seclusion, economic stagnation that prevents opportunity for future generations, the brightest and best of the TC community leaving to find a prosperous life elsewhere, swamping by incoming settlers. The illegal, isolated, morally bankrupt TRNC is therefore currently promoting TC genocide.

TCs show courage! Demand reunification and your place in a free and democratic Cyprus within the legal scrutiny, framework and protection of the EU and UN. If Jews can live in Germany then surely you can have faith in reuniting with your fellow Cypriots?

Not a word out of place Talisker. The ordinary TC is indeed a victim of exageration and extreme manipulation by nationalist zealots who wish to see the island divided. It is a shame that they hold the sway of power -for the time being.

Deniz, great to have your view on this. How can the presumably moderate and reunification-seeking views of the 'ordinary TC' prevail over the nationalist zealots?

There are a few brave souls out there, but the fear is the 'fascist's who are terrorising the people you mention.
When I went into a TC bookshop asking for a certain book, by Uludag, I was told, we dont sell books 'like that'. TC's must get their 'freedom of speech and expression' first and not live in fear. I suspect that the 'deep state' has something to the with this.

I tried to be away from this kind of argument but DENİZ words again forced me to write again ....

Bay Deniz , One book shop keeper might tell u that he doesn't sell that kind of publication .Don't u think it is his or her free of saying or idea ?
Sevgul articles are publishing everyday in YeniDüzen News paper and it is free to everybody to read her daily writings from Internet as well .
did u google it from the net ?
here it is for u that u can read her articles .

http://www.yeniduzen.com/

latest article is from below link . add above link to your Favorites that you can follow her articles and rest of the paper daily news .

http://www.yeniduzen.com/detay.asp?a=14654&z=17

We have such a newspapers like Afrika, Barış MR DENİZ .... people are buying freely and reading them freely without fear Bey efendi . We are not that much bad Deniz bey about freedom of speach . We have lots of private radio's they says anything .... I should know that u are far away from Cyprus . To understand us or to know what we want u should live in this island .....

[denizaksulu]

I was surprised to read that the number of Jews living in Germany was increasing rapidly, and will soon be reaching pre-WW2 levels.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ogromnacht
Remember 90% of Jews in Germany were murdered (210,000 out of an estimated pre-war population of 240,000) and similar proportions in various Eastern European countries (e.g. estimated 3 million Jews from total of 3.3 million in Poland) instigated again by German propaganda and direct action, leading to the figure of nearly 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust. This really was attempted genocide.

Some TCs like to suggest that they too have been subject to attempted genocide, and that the Turkish invasion in 1974 was a 'peace operation' to prevent such a thing happening. Yes, there were intercommunal killings, but to suggest TCs were subject to attempted genocide is, at best, gross exaggeration, and, at worst, complete fabrication with intent to promote crude propaganda.

So, the words 'attempted genocide' can be applied to actions against European Jews in 1930s and 40s, but not, in any way, to actions against TCs in Cyprus in the 1950s, 60 and 70s.

I salute the courage of Jews living in Germany, a country with a well-established history of attempted genocide against that community. Clearly any Jew now living in Germany must have faith in the social and legal systems which ensure safety and equality for all. This courage allows them to live within a modern, democratic, prosperous nation at the heart of Europe with immense benefits for future generations of those courageous Jews.

Given that Jews can show such courage to live within a society which previously attempted to wipe them of the face of the planet I fail to see why TCs hide behind the 'protection' of 40,000 Turkish troops, supposedly preventing a mythical genocide against them, and do not themselves show courage to embrace a reunified Cyprus. Within a unified Cyprus they will be 'protected' not by Turkish troops, but by the fair and democratic processes of law, not only within Cyprus itself, but also from the EU and the UN.

Despite the horrors of attempted genocide against them in 1930s-40s, Jews are not afforded 'special' status within the judicial or electoral systems in Germany. As a minority community within the general population they live within the standard democratic principle of 'one man, one vote'. Why should TCs demand special privileges in any future negotiated settlement?

I would contend that by hiding behind the mirage of 'attempted genocide' by GCs, the 'peace operation' in 1974, the 'protection' of 40,000 Turkish troops, the demands for special rights in a reunified Cyprus, the TCs show themselves to have none of the courageous characteristics shown by Jews living in Germany today. Such thinking will lead inevitably to a self-imposed genocide - seclusion, economic stagnation that prevents opportunity for future generations, the brightest and best of the TC community leaving to find a prosperous life elsewhere, swamping by incoming settlers. The illegal, isolated, morally bankrupt TRNC is therefore currently promoting TC genocide.

TCs show courage! Demand reunification and your place in a free and democratic Cyprus within the legal scrutiny, framework and protection of the EU and UN. If Jews can live in Germany then surely you can have faith in reuniting with your fellow Cypriots?

Not a word out of place Talisker. The ordinary TC is indeed a victim of exageration and extreme manipulation by nationalist zealots who wish to see the island divided. It is a shame that they hold the sway of power -for the time being.

Deniz, great to have your view on this. How can the presumably moderate and reunification-seeking views of the 'ordinary TC' prevail over the nationalist zealots?

There are a few brave souls out there, but the fear is the 'fascist's who are terrorising the people you mention.
When I went into a TC bookshop asking for a certain book, by Uludag, I was told, we dont sell books 'like that'. TC's must get their 'freedom of speech and expression' first and not live in fear. I suspect that the 'deep state' has something to the with this.

I tried to be away from this kind of argument but DENİZ words again forced me to write again ....

Bay Deniz , One book shop keeper might tell u that he doesn't sell that kind of publication .Don't u think it is his or her free of saying or idea ?
Sevgul articles are publishing everyday in YeniDüzen News paper and it is free to everybody to read her daily writings from Internet as well .
did u google it from the net ?
here it is for u that u can read her articles .

http://www.yeniduzen.com/

latest article is from below link . add above link to your Favorites that you can follow her articles and rest of the paper daily news .

http://www.yeniduzen.com/detay.asp?a=14654&z=17

We have such a newspapers like Afrika, Barış MR DENİZ .... people are buying freely and reading them freely without fear Bey efendi . We are not that much bad Deniz bey about freedom of speach . We have lots of private radio's they says anything .... I should know that u are far away from Cyprus . To understand us or to know what we want u should live in this island .....

Sorry to ruin your appetite Halil. I say it is fear, not a free choice. But we can argue to kingdom come.

Carry on and have a long holiday Halil - you will relax more

[Viewpoint]

As far as Insan and Viewpoint are concerned the risks associated with reunification are not worth the following potential benefits.

The day after: Commercial opportunities following a solution to the Cyprus problem
http://www.prio.no/upload/Report-The%20day%20after.pdf

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Rapprochement between Greece and Turkey has led to a boom in commercial relations between the two countries that has transformed Greece into one of the top ten foreign investors in Turkey and has turned Turkey into one of the fastest growing markets for Greece, especially for tourism. Trade in goods and services between these two countries rose at an annual average rate of 25% in 2000-06, while the tourism market increased at an astonishing average rate of 275% per year.

This remarkable increase in business, despite centuries of mutual hostility, indicates that businesses quickly overcome feelings of mistrust as soon as political conditions improve. These developments, combined with Cyprus’s small size, suggest that the most lucrative opportunities for Cypriot businesses and the wider public after a solution lie beyond the island, namely in doing business with Turkey.

In order to give Cypriots on the island an idea of the value of these opportunities in money terms, we make projections for key sectors based on both a reunification and a continued division scenario. By subtracting the divided Cyprus from the reunified Cyprus scenario, we can calculate the annual peace dividend for each sector.

For our methodology, we take the growth rates in exports of goods and services between Turkey and Greece as an initial guide, as well as recent macroeconomic and sectoral trends in both parts of Cyprus. We pay particular attention to those sectors which have the most to gain from doing business with Turkey and from likely developments on the island after a solution. These sectors are tourism, shipping, construction and real estate, tertiary education, and accounting and legal services.
Deliberately avoiding the economics of any specific solution, we make one simple assumption: that the solution that would gain the majority support of both communities would be politically and economically sustainable.

According to our calculations, if Cyprus were reunited, the recurring annual benefits to Cypriot businesses in the first seven years after reunification would generate, on average:

■ EUR 510 million per year in additional exports of goods and services to Turkey, of which EUR 385 million would be tourism and EUR 22 million would be transport
■ EUR 618 million per year in total additional trade in goods and services with Turkey
■ EUR 393 million per year in new business for Cypriot construction companies
■ EUR 155 million per year in new business for Cypriot real estate companies
■ EUR 316 million per year (excl. new business from Turkey above) in new business for Cypriot tourism enterprises
■ EUR 162 million per year of additional revenue for the Cypriot university education sector
■ EUR 103 million per year in additional income for Cypriot accounting and legal firms
■ EUR 184 million in new foreign direct investment (excl. construction and real estate above) into Cyprus
■ The annual boost to business—the annual peace dividend—rises from EUR 283 million in Year 1 to EUR 3.9 billion, or 10% of GDP, by Year 7.
■ The peace dividend is the equivalent of approximately EUR 1.8 billion per year (over CYP 1 billion or more than YTL 3 billion).
■ If this is translated into the annual dividend per family (household) in Cyprus, it comes to an annual peace bonus of approximately EUR 5,500 per household per year. This is around 20% of the current average salary in the southern part of Cyprus and an estimated 40% of the average salary in the northern part of Cyprus.

This calculation is the least that can be expected since it focuses only on the sectors that stand most to gain. Moreover, the peace dividend calculated could be almost doubled if important regional developments, such as new business from the Baku-Ceyhan oil pipeline (EUR 1.3 billion) and the implementation of the Ankara Protocol (EUR 187 million per year)
are taken into account.

Now do you understand how strongly we feel that we are willing to forgo all the above if it means we are forced into minority status in a GC state? Why are you being so blind and show lack of understanding towards our concerns and needs?

[Get Real!]

Now do you understand how strongly we feel that we are willing to forgo all the above if it means we are forced into minority status in a GC state? Why are you being so blind and show lack of understanding towards our concerns and needs?

The reason you’re worried about “minority statuses” and all that shit is because you’re thinking of coming as a distinct racist gang and expect to find confrontation so therein lies your problem!

When you start thinking like a Cypriot citizen, irrespective of what makes you different from other Cypriots, all of a sudden all your fears are unfounded.

Be it known to you that most of us Greek Cypriots do NOT want you here as a gang because we’re not interested in any more 50s & 60s style antagonisms but a smooth running democratic country that caters for its citizens with ONE SET OF RULES.

[Get Real!]

Are Turkish Cypriots prepared to DEMOTE their ethnic background while ELEVATING their Cypriot citizenship (Cypriotness) as I am?

If not then you’re clearly only interested in racist ethnic gang rivalry which will NOT work so why bother with such a plan? We already know the outcome of that from London/Zurich so why repeat it?

[Viewpoint]

Now do you understand how strongly we feel that we are willing to forgo all the above if it means we are forced into minority status in a GC state? Why are you being so blind and show lack of understanding towards our concerns and needs?

The reason you’re worried about “minority statuses” and all that shit is because you’re thinking of coming as a distinct racist gang and expect to find confrontation so therein lies your problem!

When you start thinking like a Cypriot citizen, irrespective of what makes you different from other Cypriots, all of a sudden all your fears are unfounded.

Be it known to you that most of us Greek Cypriots do NOT want you here as a gang because we’re not interested in any more 50s & 60s style antagonisms but a smooth running democratic country that caters for its citizens with ONE SET OF RULES.

Where Gcs can make them bend them and abuse them ho all in the name of democracy and majority rule of course. You cannot be trusted with our future and have to be made to perform thats why plenty of safeguards and guarantees are necessary plus our own state so that we may administer ourselves without hinderence from the EUs most racists people.

[Talisker]

Now do you understand how strongly we feel that we are willing to forgo all the above if it means we are forced into minority status in a GC state? Why are you being so blind and show lack of understanding towards our concerns and needs?

You might consider me blind but I think you're being short-sighted to miss out on the opportunities reunification within a free, one man-one vote democracy will bring to future generations of TCs. Integrate and prosper within the security of an established EU state - doesn't sound so bad to me!

Forget this crap about being in a minority - this is only one part of your identity. If you are a Cypriot first (as GCs should also be), Turk second, then you can benefit alongside your fellow Cypriots.

[Get Real!]

You cannot be trusted with our future and have to be made to perform thats why plenty of safeguards and guarantees are necessary plus our own state so that we may administer ourselves without hinderence from the EUs most racists people.

Then you have to be made to LEAVE THE COUNTRY ALTOGETHER because you’re nothing but a trouble maker.

[Viewpoint]

Now do you understand how strongly we feel that we are willing to forgo all the above if it means we are forced into minority status in a GC state? Why are you being so blind and show lack of understanding towards our concerns and needs?

You might consider me blind but I think you're being short-sighted to miss out on the opportunities reunification within a free, one man-one vote democracy will bring to future generations of TCs. Integrate and prosper within the security of an established EU state - doesn't sound so bad to me!

Forget this crap about being in a minority - this is only one part of your identity. If you are a Cypriot first (as GCs should also be), Turk second, then you can benefit alongside your fellow Cypriots.

This is like asking me to allow the GCs to run the country single handed allowing them to do as they wish, democracy can be manipulated and we do not want to end up in the corridors of ECHR every time we want planning permission or want to buy land....dont ask us to reduce ourselves to an ineffective group of people in our own country. GCs are the most racist in the EU and we would be clearly exposed to their expertise in the manipulation of democracy to the detrement of those with Turkish Cypriot origins. We do not want to be like the Pakistanis in the UK....or the Indians...we are the indigenous people of this island and want to be more like the Scots, with our own area and administration....thats why we support a BBF with political equality, both sides can also benefit from such a solution and we are willing to hold out for such a development of continue on as we are which is far better than some of the countries which entered the EU with the GC south.