Cyprus-Forum.com

[kimon07]

Piratis can you tell us a bit about the GCs role in all the developments that have divided this island?

Not taking saint Hilarion in time in 1963 and not taking Kokkina, as we could have done, in 1964.

[Piratis]

Piratis can you tell us a bit about the GCs role in all the developments that have divided this island?

The GCs merely reacted to the attempt to take from us our democratic rights. GCs had nothing to gain from a conflict with the TC minority or any other minority for that matter. But when the TCs collaborated with Turkey and Britain in an attempt to take away our rights as the majority of the population we had no other option than to fight back to regain our rights.

I am not saying that everything our side did in response to the actions of the TCs was justified. For example, even if the TCs attacked and killed innocent GCs, this didn't mean that GCs had the right to attack and kill innocent TCs in response. Two wrongs do not make a right.

On the other hand the proposals of Makarios (13 points) and the attempt of the Cyprus government for democratic reforms that would bring the system of Cyprus in line with all other successful democracies, were perfectly correct and justified. If the TCs and Turks had accepted to allow Cyprus to be a normal democratic country then no side would suffer any casualties or suffering. Unfortunately the TCs and Turks choose conflict instead of peace and democracy, because conflict, hate and the division of the two communities is what served their ultimate aim of partition.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis can you tell us a bit about the GCs role in all the developments that have divided this island?

The GCs merely reacted to the attempt to take from us our democratic rights. GCs had nothing to gain from a conflict with the TC minority or any other minority for that matter. But when the TCs collaborated with Turkey and Britain in an attempt to take away our rights as the majority of the population we had no other option than to fight back to regain our rights.

I am not saying that everything our side did in response to the actions of the TCs was justified. For example, even if the TCs attacked and killed innocent GCs, this didn't mean that GCs had the right to attack and kill innocent TCs in response. Two wrongs do not make a right.

On the other hand the proposals of Makarios (13 points) and the attempt of the Cyprus government for democratic reforms that would bring the system of Cyprus in line with all other successful democracies, were perfectly correct and justified. If the TCs and Turks had accepted to allow Cyprus to be a normal democratic country then no side would suffer any casualties or suffering. Unfortunately the TCs and Turks choose conflict instead of peace and democracy, because conflict, hate and the division of the two communities is what served their ultimate aim of partition.

Now everybody who thinks that there is even a remote opportunity to unite should read the above, this mentality will ensure division forever. Thank you for the honest clarification of how GCs think and a clear sign of how we would suffer due to the despot mindset of the majority of GCs like yourself. I am proven right once again.

[Jerry]

Piratis can you tell us a bit about the GCs role in all the developments that have divided this island?

And here from third party sources is the Turkish role in all the developments that divided the island. Take a day off VP and digest the entire script, I challenge you to find extracts that condemn the role of Greece or Makarios for that matter. As for your stupid signature, go figure who the real bully is.

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/frus/frus ... prus2.html

Here's a few tasters for you :-

Mr. Lloyd said the British had just gone through an agonizing reappraisal of the whole Cyprus business. The Turks, he said, are completely unapproachable in the matter of giving up partition for a base on the island. He had found Zorlu simply not negotiable on the subject

The Secretary said that we are not against anything that seems likely to work. He felt, however, that the Greek Government could not accept such solutions. Today the Turks have only a moral position because Cyprus is close to Turkey, but they have no juridical status there and the Secretary believed the Greeks could not accept granting them such a status

Mr. Lloyd felt that the Greeks are now getting frightened with respect to Turkish intentions and it was also true that the Turks are now saying very bad things about the British. They had started a campaign and he was not sure that they can stop it now though in the past they had occasionally turned the tap on and off

He informs us that he found Makarios in particularly conciliatory mood. He apparently recognizes need for realism in light present critical situation and told source he felt that if British were able to come forth with self- government formula for fixed period of years with provision for subsequent Cypriot self-determination, he personally would be willing to throw his weight into balance in favor. Source believes, and I agree, that were it possible for British to bring themselves to discuss formula with Makarios prior to announcement, there is some hope Makarios would lend his undoubted prestige to obtaining acceptance.

He reiterated most of views expressed last December (Embtel 1823),/2/ emphasizing continually increasing Turkish intransigence

Had interview Deputy Governor Sinclair today regarding tragic events of last three days./1/ He gave me details new severe emergency regulations enumerated Contel 388./2/ Said Turk leaders here have been extremely uncooperative, refusing government's requests urge restraint and instead, with utter cynicism, have repeated claim that Greek bomb at information center provoked Turk community. I pointed out admission Turk responsibility for later killings in words Kuchuk at Istanbul, who said Turk patriots "marched to Greek quarter killing two and wounding five" in retribution

He not so certain of role Ankara government but there again usual pattern would indicate complicity. In reply my query his assessment Turk purpose in forcing issue to verge civil war, Sinclair said "This is their all-out bid for partition". In spite obvious discouragement local officials and seeming hopelessness of effort, HMG planning press on with new initiative June 17. I gave him some of worst FBIS transcripts Ankara radio output yesterday, pointing out that our reports were to effect public radios in various centers pouring forth these lies and inflammatory statements to masses Turks who later demonstrated as in Limassol, Ktima, Larnaca and Famagusta. Such broadcasts obviously contributed to tragedy last night's knife and shovel killings Larnaca.
In face events past few days and apparent willingness Turks go any length prove their point, do not see any hope for UK proposals unless we willing back them strongly. Utterly shameless, irresponsible manner in which Turks applying pressure here would seem call for some action our part to stop deteriorating Greek-Turk relations as well as situation on island.

[Viewpoint]

Jerry enosis triggered the taksim arrow which left the bow...to little to late.

[Hermes]

Jerry enosis triggered the taksim arrow which left the bow...to little to late.

Nonsense. The TC leadership and Turkey were given the option by the UN in 1965 for a popular vote to validate Cypriot independence in exchange for a unified state and strong guarantees. The GCs would in all likelihood have accepted a democratic Cypriot independence in a vote that would have precluded enosis in the future. It was Turkey and the TCs who turned down a referendum to abandon enosis because it didn't offer them segregation or federation.

The TCs have always rejected a unified Cyprus because they want special privileges above and beyond what their population numbers warrant. That is the real source of Cyprus's problems before and since and not the GC demands for enosis. Enosis only really survived into the 1960s because the option of a truly unified Cyprus was denied to the GCs and consistently undermined by Turkey and the TCs belligerent and racist leadership.

[Viewpoint]

Jerry enosis triggered the taksim arrow which left the bow...to little to late.

Nonsense. The TC leadership and Turkey were given the option by the UN in 1965 for a popular vote to validate Cypriot independence in exchange for a unified state and strong guarantees. The GCs would in all likelihood have accepted a democratic Cypriot independence in a vote that would have precluded enosis in the future. It was Turkey and the TCs who turned down a referendum to abandon enosis because it didn't offer them segregation or federation.

The TCs have always rejected a unified Cyprus because they want special privileges above and beyond what their population numbers warrant. That is the real source of Cyprus's problems before and since and not the GC demands for enosis. Enosis only really survived into the 1960s because the option of a truly unified Cyprus was denied to the GCs and consistently undermined by Turkey and the TCs belligerent and racist leadership.

Independence for the GCs meant the freedom to do as they wish, why should we want that? their real aim was to realize enosis everyone knows this and you can deny it all you want but it wont make this fact go away. The GCs never promoted unity after 1960 they always discriminated and persecuted TCs, I have first hand experience and can recall what went in the airports when we arrived on holiday, the GC passengers would go straight through no problem but the TCs had to face a barrage of insulting questions and abuse.

So no amount of voting or abandoning of the then enosis and taksim goals was not on the cards both sides had their hidden agendas and worked to achieve them. If only you GCs had not have pursued enosis and promoted unity Cyprus would never have been divided.

[supporttheunderdog]

If Makarios still harboured aspirations of Enosis with Greece (and so too the majority who voted him into power), then perhaps it was because he knew what our isolation would bring upon us, sooner or later.

yes but look what attempts at Enosis brought
(a) in 1963/4 the first partition of the Island and threat of Invasion
(b) in 1974 the invasion and further extension of the partioning of the Island with 37% under illegal ocupation.

See http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cyprus/Davidcarter/againstconspiracy/againstconspiracy.html

[supporttheunderdog]

Jerry enosis triggered the taksim arrow which left the bow...to little to late.

Nonsense. The TC leadership and Turkey were given the option by the UN in 1965 for a popular vote to validate Cypriot independence in exchange for a unified state and strong guarantees. The GCs would in all likelihood have accepted a democratic Cypriot independence in a vote that would have precluded enosis in the future. It was Turkey and the TCs who turned down a referendum to abandon enosis because it didn't offer them segregation or federation.

The TCs have always rejected a unified Cyprus because they want special privileges above and beyond what their population numbers warrant. That is the real source of Cyprus's problems before and since and not the GC demands for enosis. Enosis only really survived into the 1960s because the option of a truly unified Cyprus was denied to the GCs and consistently undermined by Turkey and the TCs belligerent and racist leadership.

Independence for the GCs meant the freedom to do as they wish, why should we want that? their real aim was to realize enosis everyone knows this and you can deny it all you want but it wont make this fact go away. The GCs never promoted unity after 1960 they always discriminated and persecuted TCs, I have first hand experience and can recall what went in the airports when we arrived on holiday, the GC passengers would go straight through no problem but the TCs had to face a barrage of insulting questions and abuse.

So no amount of voting or abandoning of the then enosis and taksim goals was not on the cards both sides had their hidden agendas and worked to achieve them. If only you GCs had not have pursued enosis and promoted unity Cyprus would never have been divided.

Dear VP

But by 1965 many GC's were seemingly turning away from Enosis: see the opening section of
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/disloyalty%20-%20Markides.html

[Viewpoint]

Jerry enosis triggered the taksim arrow which left the bow...to little to late.

Nonsense. The TC leadership and Turkey were given the option by the UN in 1965 for a popular vote to validate Cypriot independence in exchange for a unified state and strong guarantees. The GCs would in all likelihood have accepted a democratic Cypriot independence in a vote that would have precluded enosis in the future. It was Turkey and the TCs who turned down a referendum to abandon enosis because it didn't offer them segregation or federation.

The TCs have always rejected a unified Cyprus because they want special privileges above and beyond what their population numbers warrant. That is the real source of Cyprus's problems before and since and not the GC demands for enosis. Enosis only really survived into the 1960s because the option of a truly unified Cyprus was denied to the GCs and consistently undermined by Turkey and the TCs belligerent and racist leadership.

Independence for the GCs meant the freedom to do as they wish, why should we want that? their real aim was to realize enosis everyone knows this and you can deny it all you want but it wont make this fact go away. The GCs never promoted unity after 1960 they always discriminated and persecuted TCs, I have first hand experience and can recall what went in the airports when we arrived on holiday, the GC passengers would go straight through no problem but the TCs had to face a barrage of insulting questions and abuse.

So no amount of voting or abandoning of the then enosis and taksim goals was not on the cards both sides had their hidden agendas and worked to achieve them. If only you GCs had not have pursued enosis and promoted unity Cyprus would never have been divided.

Dear VP

But by 1965 many GC's were seemingly turning away from Enosis: see the opening section of
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/disloyalty%20-%20Markides.html

We had TCs living in tents, GCs were discriminating and persecuting TCs, TCs had no say in government, Gcs were tgring to force Akritas down our throats....and just because they were seen on the surface to no longer want enosis we have to gibe our cause. It dont work that way the taksim arrow had left the bow.