Cyprus-Forum.com

[supporttheunderdog]

my understanding is that incited by Turkey the T/c withdrew from Government in December 63 - their problme if they had no voice.

[Viewpoint]

my understanding is that incited by Turkey the T/c withdrew from Government in December 63 - their problme if they had no voice.

Is that all you got out of my post?

[Hermes]

TCs had no say in government.

And who's fault was that? You cannot keep blaming the GCs for the disastrous policies of the TC leadership in the 1960s. At Ankara's instigation they pursued a reckless self-segregationist agenda which amounted to an armed insurgency against the majority population - as well as targeting those TCs who wanted unity and co-existence. Faced with a belligerent minority you cannot blame the GCs for reacting harshly. You keep blaming "enosis" but in reality the enosis genie could've been contained if the TCs were committed to a fully democratic independent Cyprus. Instead TCs were only interested in partition because the GCs wouldn't allow them perpetual veto rights - veto rights which would've been exercised against the will of the democratic majority. And please don't reply by saying "enosis" turned you into rabid segregationists. The TC leadership chose the path of segregation as a deliberate policy to further Turkey's agenda to prevent Cypriot independence, and they connived to murder those who disagreed with them.

[Viewpoint]

Hermes lets face it what ever you say or I say we will never in a million years agree on this subject, so whats the point of going around in circles. You can stick to your version of history and apportion the blames to the TCs all you wish...whatever went into the mix the end product is physical division. the TCs in the north and GCs in south.

What is important now is what we want for the future, it appears that we are not going to reach this "Cypriot" agreement as what each side is offering and demanding from the other side just do not add up. as I have always stated the chasm is just to wide add to this ingrained mistrust and you have an impasse, therefore the talks are on the verge of breaking down. Once they do each side will push and pursue their own agenda, this we all have to be aware of.

[Get Real!]

....therefore the talks are on the verge of breaking down. Once they do each side will push and pursue their own agenda, this we all have to be aware of.

Sure, but I don't see your agenda going anywhere...

[Hermes]

What is important now is what we want for the future, it appears that we are not going to reach this "Cypriot" agreement as what each side is offering and demanding from the other side just do not add up. as I have always stated the chasm is just to wide add to this ingrained mistrust and you have an impasse, therefore the talks are on the verge of breaking down. Once they do each side will push and pursue their own agenda, this we all have to be aware of.

The only reason for going over the past is to be clear about why things are where they are today. The current Turkish agenda is still confederation and partition. Little has altered. This is in opposition to international law and UN resolutions. GCs are not asking for enosis today. The ROC is committed to an increasingly federated Europe. It is Turkey and the TC leadership who are resisting democracy, EU law, UN resolutions and federalism.

The TCs can no longer use "enosis" as a reason for pursuing violently enforced self-segregation. Now it is the fear of "majority-rule". When they are offered guarantees, human rights, a rotating Presidency, etc it is not enough - it will never be enough because partition is the only solution that will satisfy them. And partition is what they can't have. And Turkey and the TCs will pay a continually heavy price for insisting on it.

[Viewpoint]

What is important now is what we want for the future, it appears that we are not going to reach this "Cypriot" agreement as what each side is offering and demanding from the other side just do not add up. as I have always stated the chasm is just to wide add to this ingrained mistrust and you have an impasse, therefore the talks are on the verge of breaking down. Once they do each side will push and pursue their own agenda, this we all have to be aware of.

The only reason for going over the past is to be clear about why things are where they are today. The current Turkish agenda is still confederation and partition. Little has altered. This is in opposition to international law and UN resolutions. GCs are not asking for enosis today. The ROC is committed to an increasingly federated Europe. It is Turkey and the TC leadership who are resisting democracy, EU law, UN resolutions and federalism.

The TCs can no longer use "enosis" as a reason for pursuing violently enforced self-segregation. Now it is the fear of "majority-rule". When they are offered guarantees, human rights, a rotating Presidency, etc it is not enough - it will never be enough because partition is the only solution that will satisfy them. And partition is what they can't have. And Turkey and the TCs will pay a continually heavy price for insisting on it.

Again the past will never be clear because you have your version and I have mine, we will never accept the others viewpoint so thats why I say the chasm is just to wide to bridge thats why a solution will never arrive. We are not resisting democracy and human rights, as I have said before its the surgeon not the scalpel we resist as this will ultimately be the GCs due to their numerical advantage and thats why we are asking that this surgeon be full qualified as his past record when operating on TCs is not to be trusted, why is this so difficult to understand? I get the feeling you are being bloody mined just for the sake of it.

In an indirect way you have achieved enosis through the EU to gain the upper hand which you use to the full but what you have not realized about the other side is that without solutions that will entice and persuade us to unite we are willing to pay any price to keep the TRNC...we are here for the long haul and no amount of threats from your side will change that.

[Hermes]

In an indirect way you have achieved enosis through the EU

And we took the occupied areas into the EU with us. In effect, we have re-unified the island - indirectly of course. We're just waiting for Turkey to wake up to the fact.

[Viewpoint]

In an indirect way you have achieved enosis through the EU

And we took the occupied areas into the EU with us. In effect, we have re-unified the island - indirectly of course. We're just waiting for Turkey to wake up to the fact.

You'll have a very long wait without a comprehensive solution, 7 years and counting.

[Hermes]

You'll have a very long wait without a comprehensive solution, 7 years and counting.

Turkey is a slow dim-witted beast. It thought the longer it waited the more chance of recognition of the pirate state or direct trade. Or the GCs would somehow give up their sovereignty over the north. Or the EU would choose Turkey over Cyprus. None of it's happened. Or is likely to happen. Turkey has sold the TCs down the river and has no plan B. Maybe slowly the message has gotten through Turkey's befuddled brain. We'll have to wait and see.