Cyprus-Forum.com

[Jerry]

Hello, I did use the word "were" but this does not detract from the fact that history brought us a partnership which of course you will try to erase as it does not suit your ultimate goal but unfortunately for you, you cannot change the fact that this internationally recognized agreement gives us rights, rights that mean we are treated as an equal side to the dispute therefore meaning we are not just any minority. Time you understood this fact because without our OK you will never find any solution.

But the fact that you WERE owners and rulers, according to you, means you should enjoy special minority rights. How come, explain? It goes against the UN Charter etc, one could probably say it's illegal.

“brought us a partnership " A euphemism for "Turkey, with Britain's help, forced an undemocratic and unworkable constitution on Cyprus"

“this internationally recognized agreement” Oh that one, the one where Turkey agreed to “guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus” (and could have done so in 1974 instead of conquering 37% of the island for itself)

“Time you understood this fact because without our OK you will never find any solution.” Not strictly true VP, it’s Turkey’s decision not yours. Sooner or later it will put the interests of 70 million Turks before those of the unwanted Anatolians (plus the few remaining TCs) and dump you.

[Viewpoint]

Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?

2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.

[wyoming cowboy]

Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?

2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.

you keep making the same mistake Vp The Republic of Cyprus was born as a DEMOCRACY, the veto you claim is meaningless......the arguments you have do not corelate with a western democracy, your arguments are for aparteid, violation of human rights, and undemocratic ideals.....therefore your arguments are null and void GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD

[Jerry]

Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?
2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.

Honestly!

1. No
2. I signed nothing
3. No
4. No
5. Dunno, has it?
6. No

[Piratis]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

"fight back" is something that someone does when attacked. GCs did not attack the TCs, GCs were fighting against the British Colonialists. It is the TCs who choose to attack the GCs, and therefore it is the GCs who fought back.

And what makes you think that a minority of 18% has the right to use force in order to disallow what the vast majority of the native population wants? Cyprus was under Ottoman and British empires against the will of the Cypriot people and this didn't bother you, but Cyprus being part of a state that Cypriots themselves wanted to be was somehow something you had a "right" to disallow by means of brute force?

TCs, like every other minority in Cyprus, have the right to be equal Cypriots and a right to their human rights. If you had respected our rights then we would have also respected yours and we would have lived together in peace as we do with all the other minorities. Unfortunately you decided to attack us and use brute force in order to disallow to us to exercise our democratic rights and that is how the conflict started.

The fight back was against your movement to turn Cyprus into Greece, we opposed this as we did not want to live in Greece as we considered it our ultimate downfall and demise. We had to fight and our only way to stop you was to side with a force stronger that yours which happened to be the Brits follwed by the Turks....our survival was to stop you which we did.

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?

If we go by your logic no part of Greece should have ever been liberated and no Greek state should have ever been formed because the Ottomans created Muslim minorities in our territories. And because Ottomans ruled mainland Greece, Bulgaria etc etc, that means that the Muslim minorities in those territories should always have privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population. Obviously your logic is extremely flawed. If that was the case then why is Constantinople and the western part of Asia Minor part of Turkey? Was this done with the agreement of the Greek minority, which ruled those lands for far more time than you ruled Cyprus? And what are the special privileges and powers given to the Greek minority in Turkey? None!

Even minorities such as the Aboriginals of Australia or the Native Americans in the USA, who ruled their own lands for millennia, are not given anywhere near the kind of privileges and powers that you demand for your own minority, which was created merely a few centuries ago by means of a foreign occupation. The only thing that is similar to what you demand for your minority in Cyprus are the powers that the minority of Whites had in South Africa during Apartheid.

The Cypriot people had every right to democratically choose the destiny of their own island and the fact is that you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and you attacked us in order to deny to us our rights and have gains on our expense.

It is your crimes against us in the 50s and the unfair, undemocratic and racist terms that UK and Turkey imposed on Cyprus that set the stage for what happened in the 60s and 70s. Had Cyprus been allowed to unite with the rest of Greece then we would continue living with you in Cyprus as we did during Ottoman and British rule, but this time we would all be equal citizens of a state we democratically choose to belong and not subjects of some foreign empire that was imposed on us by force. This is what happened to Rhodes in 1948, which also has a minority like yours, and not a single nose broke there.

At the very least, after we proposed the alternative for an independent Cyprus, both the Turkish and British imperialists and your minority, should have accepted a real independence with a real democracy that most Cypriots could embrace. Instead of that we were given some pseudo independence with foreign made constitution, foreign judges of the supreme court, foreign "guarantors", foreign armies and foreign bases and on top of that an undemocratic and racist system that further divided the population. All these happened in a time that the Turkish Propagandists forget, choosing to start from 1963, as if there were no crimes, conflicts and huge injustices against the Cypriot people before that.

[kimon07]

If we go by your logic no part of Greece should have ever been liberated and no Greek state should have ever been formed because the Ottomans created Muslim minorities in our territories. And because Ottomans ruled mainland Greece, Bulgaria etc etc, that means that the Muslim minorities in those territories should always have privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population. Obviously your logic is extremely flawed.

Not "Flawed". Simply neo Ottoman - Islamic.

[loyalcypriot10]

Cyprus is divided because its people are probably too stupid to arrive at a federal solution that will remove the majority of negative outside influences. They seem to crave the inputs from Greece , Turkey, UK, etc

[Viewpoint]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

"fight back" is something that someone does when attacked. GCs did not attack the TCs, GCs were fighting against the British Colonialists. It is the TCs who choose to attack the GCs, and therefore it is the GCs who fought back.

And what makes you think that a minority of 18% has the right to use force in order to disallow what the vast majority of the native population wants? Cyprus was under Ottoman and British empires against the will of the Cypriot people and this didn't bother you, but Cyprus being part of a state that Cypriots themselves wanted to be was somehow something you had a "right" to disallow by means of brute force?

TCs, like every other minority in Cyprus, have the right to be equal Cypriots and a right to their human rights. If you had respected our rights then we would have also respected yours and we would have lived together in peace as we do with all the other minorities. Unfortunately you decided to attack us and use brute force in order to disallow to us to exercise our democratic rights and that is how the conflict started.

The fight back was against your movement to turn Cyprus into Greece, we opposed this as we did not want to live in Greece as we considered it our ultimate downfall and demise. We had to fight and our only way to stop you was to side with a force stronger that yours which happened to be the Brits follwed by the Turks....our survival was to stop you which we did.

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?

If we go by your logic no part of Greece should have ever been liberated and no Greek state should have ever been formed because the Ottomans created Muslim minorities in our territories. And because Ottomans ruled mainland Greece, Bulgaria etc etc, that means that the Muslim minorities in those territories should always have privileges and gains on the expense of the rest of the population. Obviously your logic is extremely flawed. If that was the case then why is Constantinople and the western part of Asia Minor part of Turkey? Was this done with the agreement of the Greek minority, which ruled those lands for far more time than you ruled Cyprus? And what are the special privileges and powers given to the Greek minority in Turkey? None!

Even minorities such as the Aboriginals of Australia or the Native Americans in the USA, who ruled their own lands for millennia, are not given anywhere near the kind of privileges and powers that you demand for your own minority, which was created merely a few centuries ago by means of a foreign occupation. The only thing that is similar to what you demand for your minority in Cyprus are the powers that the minority of Whites had in South Africa during Apartheid.

The Cypriot people had every right to democratically choose the destiny of their own island and the fact is that you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and you attacked us in order to deny to us our rights and have gains on our expense.

It is your crimes against us in the 50s and the unfair, undemocratic and racist terms that UK and Turkey imposed on Cyprus that set the stage for what happened in the 60s and 70s. Had Cyprus been allowed to unite with the rest of Greece then we would continue living with you in Cyprus as we did during Ottoman and British rule, but this time we would all be equal citizens of a state we democratically choose to belong and not subjects of some foreign empire that was imposed on us by force. This is what happened to Rhodes in 1948, which also has a minority like yours, and not a single nose broke there.

At the very least, after we proposed the alternative for an independent Cyprus, both the Turkish and British imperialists and your minority, should have accepted a real independence with a real democracy that most Cypriots could embrace. Instead of that we were given some pseudo independence with foreign made constitution, foreign judges of the supreme court, foreign "guarantors", foreign armies and foreign bases and on top of that an undemocratic and racist system that further divided the population. All these happened in a time that the Turkish Propagandists forget, choosing to start from 1963, as if there were no crimes, conflicts and huge injustices against the Cypriot people before that.

Where you go wrong is that you think that a square peg fits in a round hole. Our history is different from the other examples you provide, the constitution you despise was shaped in the face of your own diabolical track record of cohabiting with the TCs. You need to get to grips with the reality that if you wish to unite you have to share this island equally with the TCs as 2 equal partners otherwise as you always say wait for the balance of power to go your way but never forget that is not guaranteed and it could go even further the other way.

What you could do and what I have always recommended is that you work hard at winning over the TCs to a degree that they are strong enough to break away from Turkey who act as the TCs only umbilical cord. Your endeavors should be based on showing the TCs that united their lives would be far better than it is today, I have requested that GCs on this forum put forward concrete advantages and how it would effect the average Tcs life, but all we read are theoretical assumptions that are neither attractive nor would they add anything to our lives.

[Viewpoint]

Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?
2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.

Honestly!

1. No
2. I signed nothing
3. No
4. No
5. Dunno, has it?
6. No

Now how do you get through to ignorant people like Jerry?

[Viewpoint]

Lets test see and test your honesty,

1 Were were rulers of the island for over 350 years?

2 Did you sign a binding agreement?

3 In this agreement did it not give the TCs rights which include a veto?

4 Are we (Turkey plus the TCs) not as important as yourselves in finding a solution?

5 Has Turkey told the EU that if forced to choose they will choose the TRNC?

6 Is it not true that the world witnessed your refusal of the last comprehensive solution prepared by the UN?

Lets see if you have grip on reality.

you keep making the same mistake Vp The Republic of Cyprus was born as a DEMOCRACY, the veto you claim is meaningless......the arguments you have do not corelate with a western democracy, your arguments are for aparteid, violation of human rights, and undemocratic ideals.....therefore your arguments are null and void GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD

Your signature is on the agreement are you saying it is no longer valid for you and that there is now a new state of play? and that each side should fight for what they feel is their right?