Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

"fight back" is something that someone does when attacked. GCs did not attack the TCs, GCs were fighting against the British Colonialists. It is the TCs who choose to attack the GCs, and therefore it is the GCs who fought back.

And what makes you think that a minority of 18% has the right to use force in order to disallow what the vast majority of the native population wants? Cyprus was under Ottoman and British empires against the will of the Cypriot people and this didn't bother you, but Cyprus being part of a state that Cypriots themselves wanted to be was somehow something you had a "right" to disallow by means of brute force?

TCs, like every other minority in Cyprus, have the right to be equal Cypriots and a right to their human rights. If you had respected our rights then we would have also respected yours and we would have lived together in peace as we do with all the other minorities. Unfortunately you decided to attack us and use brute force in order to disallow to us to exercise our democratic rights and that is how the conflict started.

The fight back was against your movement to turn Cyprus into Greece, we opposed this as we did not want to live in Greece as we considered it our ultimate downfall and demise. We had to fight and our only way to stop you was to side with a force stronger that yours which happened to be the Brits follwed by the Turks....our survival was to stop you which we did.

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?

[Viewpoint]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

So, YOU ADMIT the that TMT did commit the unprovoked crimes listed above. And that the intercommunal conflict was initiated by the TMT which was formed by Denktash, lead by Turkish officers and encouraged by Britain. But you say that, although unprovoked by the GCs, such actions they were "fighting back" to avoid enossis? Fighting back at what? Churches and school buildings and GC houses and GC unarmed civilians?

Unprovoked???? if your whole existence is threatened by a majority group trying to give your country away to Greece then you fight back, whats so difficult to understand? We could never have done this alone so we sided with those that could defeat you and stop you from destroying our lives. So division is your own making without enosis there would never have been division....it is the cause of the end result.

[kimon07]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

So, YOU ADMIT the that TMT did commit the unprovoked crimes listed above. And that the intercommunal conflict was initiated by the TMT which was formed by Denktash, lead by Turkish officers and encouraged by Britain. But you say that, although unprovoked by the GCs, such actions they were "fighting back" to avoid enossis? Fighting back at what? Churches and school buildings and GC houses and GC unarmed civilians?

Unprovoked???? if your whole existence is threatened by a majority group trying to give your country away to Greece then you fight back, whats so difficult to understand? We could never have done this alone so we sided with those that could defeat you and stop you from destroying our lives. So division is your own making without enosis there would never have been division....it is the cause of the end result.

I fully understand your frustration. Now you will have to answer to your bosses for admitting that that YOU started it all and that YOU caused the intercommunal blood shed. And that all the stories about GC attrocities and GC genocide against TC was just bull shit. Won't you? What will they do? Take your head now? Gosh!

P.S. nwegen. There is another evidence for you. VP said everything that could be said on the subject of yout topic..

[londoner]

One needs to take a critical look and of course be totally unbiased in order to begin to understand what was happening in Cyprus. EOKA started an armed struggle to get Cyprus unified to Greece. The TC nationalists reacted and asked for taksim. When Makarios half-heartedly signed for independence he was doing so because he intended to carry on the struggle for enosis. We need to be totally honest if we are interested to come to the truth. Since 1955 an undeclared war was taking place as the two communities tussled for strategic advantage. A few of us, the romantic ones, wanted the GC's and TC's to be brothers-in-arms in a free and really independent Cyprus. TMT took care of those TC's who had such noble aspirations and EOKA went on a killing spree of innocent GC's and in fact killed far more GC's than British soldiers. This is the truth as I lived it.

Extreme ethnocentric supremecist nationalists, in both communities, full of bitter hatred and spreading their hatred, have wrecked Cyprus - fact

[Viewpoint]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

So, YOU ADMIT the that TMT did commit the unprovoked crimes listed above. And that the intercommunal conflict was initiated by the TMT which was formed by Denktash, lead by Turkish officers and encouraged by Britain. But you say that, although unprovoked by the GCs, such actions they were "fighting back" to avoid enossis? Fighting back at what? Churches and school buildings and GC houses and GC unarmed civilians?

Unprovoked???? if your whole existence is threatened by a majority group trying to give your country away to Greece then you fight back, whats so difficult to understand? We could never have done this alone so we sided with those that could defeat you and stop you from destroying our lives. So division is your own making without enosis there would never have been division....it is the cause of the end result.

I fully understand your frustration. Now you will have to answer to your bosses for admitting that that YOU started it all and that YOU caused the intercommunal blood shed. And that all the stories about GC attrocities and GC genocide against TC was just bull shit. Won't you? What will they do? Take your head now? Gosh!

P.S. nwegen. There is another evidence for you. VP said everything that could be said on the subject of yout topic..

Kimyon your blindness is standard of GCs, you have been brain washed to think that the blame is one sided..do you know how stupid this makes you look?

[kimon07]

What did you expect the TCs to do? they fought back for survival vowing never to allow you to gift the island to Greece.

So, YOU ADMIT the that TMT did commit the unprovoked crimes listed above. And that the intercommunal conflict was initiated by the TMT which was formed by Denktash, lead by Turkish officers and encouraged by Britain. But you say that, although unprovoked by the GCs, such actions they were "fighting back" to avoid enossis? Fighting back at what? Churches and school buildings and GC houses and GC unarmed civilians?

Unprovoked???? if your whole existence is threatened by a majority group trying to give your country away to Greece then you fight back, whats so difficult to understand? We could never have done this alone so we sided with those that could defeat you and stop you from destroying our lives. So division is your own making without enosis there would never have been division....it is the cause of the end result.

I fully understand your frustration. Now you will have to answer to your bosses for admitting that that YOU started it all and that YOU caused the intercommunal blood shed. And that all the stories about GC attrocities and GC genocide against TC was just bull shit. Won't you? What will they do? Take your head now? Gosh!

P.S. nwegen. There is another evidence for you. VP said everything that could be said on the subject of yout topic..

Kimyon your blindness is standard of GCs, you have been brain washed to think that the blame is one sided..do you know how stupid this makes you look?

Let go VP. CASE CLOSED.
From now on, when people will be asking for hard evidence about who divided Cyprus, I will be using quotes from your posts as well, next to those of Denktash.

[Viewpoint]

Feel free to use my quotes as I stand behind every word, the GCs threatened us with our annihilation and we fought back like any human being would do.

[Jerry]

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?

"Owners and rulers", that's the whole bloody point VP. Nobody can rule another country where the indigenous population want to rule themselves. The UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples of 1960 and the UN Charter make this quite clear: -

that the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights (art. 1);
that all peoples have the right to self-determination, but that this necessarily includes the right freely to determine their political status and freely to pursue their economic, social and cultural development (art. 2);
that all armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease (art. 4);
that immediate steps shall be taken, in United Nations Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories (art. 5).
And there is the warning, in the premonition of possible future post-decolonisation conflicts (as, at the time, in the former Belgian Congo), against any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a (post-decolonisation) country (art. 6); and as to the obligation of all States to observe the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as to equality and non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity (art. 7).
http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/dicc/dicc.html


There is no other minority that has a partnership like yours because it's undemocratic, Turkey, however, insisted that the terms of the Zurich Agreement favoured itself and the Turkish Cypriots. The colonial power agreed and told Makarios “take it or leave it”.

[bill cobbett]

Must say this is an excellent thread with some points being put forward with great passion and with some decent research.

It's been said a few times above that the TMT/Volkan terrorist actions were an attempt to defeat Enosis, presumably by dragging the much more powerful motherland Turkey to come to the rescue but doesn't it go much further than that?

After all we all have got to know the late Rough Donkeytosh pretty well over so many years. We all know him as a strident Turkish Nationalist, he wouldn't have been content with just defeating any notion of Enosis. His aim went much further, surely his aim was targeted at achieving Partition through a Turkish statelet/province.

In other words hasn't it always been Plan B from the '50s and any actions, acts of provocation, any walk-outs from gov, any establishment of armed enclaves, any population transfers, and all the intransigence at countless settlement talks over the years (including the current one by his successor) have all had the one aim... a Divided CY with an ethnically pure Turkish Statelet... ????? It's always been Plan B boys and girls. Always.

[Viewpoint]

You have to get to grips with the fact that we were owners and rulers of this island for over 350 years which demolishes your your stupid belief that we should accept minority rights just like any other in the world, name another minority which actually owned and ruled and has an international partnership like ours?

"Owners and rulers", that's the whole bloody point VP. Nobody can rule another country where the indigenous population want to rule themselves. The UN Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples of 1960 and the UN Charter make this quite clear: -

that the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights (art. 1);
that all peoples have the right to self-determination, but that this necessarily includes the right freely to determine their political status and freely to pursue their economic, social and cultural development (art. 2);
that all armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against dependent peoples shall cease (art. 4);
that immediate steps shall be taken, in United Nations Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories or all other territories which have not yet attained independence, to transfer all powers to the peoples of those territories (art. 5).
And there is the warning, in the premonition of possible future post-decolonisation conflicts (as, at the time, in the former Belgian Congo), against any attempt aimed at the partial or total disruption of the national unity and the territorial integrity of a (post-decolonisation) country (art. 6); and as to the obligation of all States to observe the Charter of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as to equality and non-interference in the internal affairs of all States, and respect for the sovereign rights of all peoples and their territorial integrity (art. 7).
http://untreaty.un.org/cod/avl/ha/dicc/dicc.html


There is no other minority that has a partnership like yours because it's undemocratic, Turkey, however, insisted that the terms of the Zurich Agreement favoured itself and the Turkish Cypriots. The colonial power agreed and told Makarios “take it or leave it”.

Hello, I did use the word "were" but this does not detract from the fact that history brought us a partnership which of course you will try to erase as it does not suit your ultimate goal but unfortunately for you, you cannot change the fact that this internationally recognized agreement gives us rights, rights that mean we are treated as an equal side to the dispute therefore meaning we are not just any minority. Time you understood this fact because without our OK you will never find any solution.