Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Seems like you know nothing about evolution and development. Can you teach a monkey to do all the things a human can? Which one has the "inherited genetic traits" to learn these things like painting vases to such a high Art form? A human or a monkey?

You think learning is artificial. Pooh. Yes, in your case!

You are full of air!

Answer this or keep quiet for good:

And, now, as to the last clause in your ramblings; how do you know Man's ability for making things and decorating them is not an "inherent genetic trait"? That Man's drive to become skilled in these activities/crafts is not an "inherent genetic trait"? And why is anything "learned" not contributed to by "inherent genetic traits"?

[GreekIslandGirl]

... the craft skills necessary for making pots and painting the images being artificial and learned, not an inherent genetic trait.

How do you know? Where is your source for dogmatism?

How many other species can you teach to paint vases to this high degree of skill, stud?

[supporttheunderdog]

tell me "g"IG, why do we need schools and teachers etc in art and/or pottery etc., if as you suggest skills and knowledge that are applied in eg making pots painting pictures, are inherited characteristics?

why are we not all born potters, artists, blacksmiths, silversmiths, mechanics, musicians, etc.

what wonderful works of art that compare with eg Caravaggio or Monet, or Leonardo di Vinci or Klimpt or el Greco, or Turner or Constable. or on the Greek Pottery have you produced?

how did you learn to cook? was it something that you could do naturally or did you acquire the skills from your mother or other relatives, or in cookery classes at school?

How did you get the qualifications appropriate for your job? were you born with the knowledge and skill necessary to pass whatever exams you have taken?

Are any children that you have in possession of the necessary knowledge and skills so they can do your job, and if so how did they acquire them?

If you can answer those questions we might get somewhere in a constructive way because you might begin to understand the precise point I am making

I am not seeking to argue that we do not have an immense inherited capacity to do these things - ie a potentiality. but we are only able to achieve the potential if we are taught (and more importantly learned) the necessary knowledge and skills

[GreekIslandGirl]

Teach all you like but if the recipient does not have the genetic traits to acquire the skills there will be no transfer of knowledge. Would a classroom of monkeys be teachable in your narrative of transfer of skills? No, because the monkey does not have the same "inherent traits" as humans.

Transferring of knowledge is nurturing. When you use the term "inherent traits", it relates to genetics i.e. nature. By saying Man does not have "inherited traits" for these skills means there is no genetic basis for nurturing to work. So the skills or aptitude for them would not exist in the first place without the genetic base of traits.

[supporttheunderdog]

That's an irrelevant quote (back to your obsession with "descended") and doesn't nullify the point that you are confused about Apes.

Furthermore, (3rd example) your ignorance on the matter was also displayed here:

Man, the Apes and Monkeys all represent seperate branches offone of the boughs of the tree of life.

Again, you think Man is not classed with the Apes.

Now if I had said we were not hominids then you might have had case but I have consistently grouped humans with the rest of the homonids eg Pan, Gorilla and Pongo species, as well as the other Primates and it is only by playing these word games that you think you can win.In that respect Apes is not a defined scientific word but has a number of meanings, including a vernacular meaning which excludes humans - even some biologists and anthropologists us the word Ape to describe the other non homo species within the hominid family

See EG
Humans aren't monkeys. We aren't apes, either. | john hawks weblog
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/phylogeny/taxonomy/humans-arent-apes-2012.html

A respectable scientist making the same point.

The point however remains that what you call dinosaur remnants in us which are characteristics we share with other species (again a point where i have always accepted we share common characteristics) are anything but dinosuar remnants in that they,
(a) did not originate with dinosaurs but are far older
(b) were not at the time unique to the dinosaur and
(c) save in respect of birds were not acquired by other species from dinosaurs.



Indeed I think you have fallen into the error that you incorrectly ascribe to me of a uniqueness in species eg dinosaurs where no such uniqueness exists (except in so far as all species are unique ).

So tell me this - what specifically unique characteristics did dinosaurs possess but that no other species before them or at that time possessed and how did other species not descended from dinosaurs get them?

:My answer remains that they are not dinosaur remnants but a natural part of that species which save in respect of ancestral species in the direct line of evolution from dinosaurs has evolved independent of other species from the time of the common ancestor with other species (and where dinosuars are not ancestor of any mammal but share a common ancestry till about 340MYA)

In event I do not think the genetic relationship between Humans and dinosaurs is a paradigm for the relationship between the non-Greek Ancient Minoan Culture that existed until about 1400 BC and was then supplanted by a Greek Civilisation that borrowed many things from the Minoans. such as writing bearing in mind writing is not an inherited skill but a craft skill we are taught ( this is distinct from the physiological features in humans which are largely inherited such as the construction of our hands which enables us to manipulate a pencil and the design of our brain which gives us the mental capacity to learn how to write and to perform the act of writing. ie a potentiality .

The ability to write however (but not the potentiality to write) appeared to be missing in the Greeks until about 1450 BC when they learned the skill from the Minoans and borrowed the Minoan Linear A, probably adapting it to how the Greeks used sounds. .

You also still have not answered the question of how if ancient Minoan was Greek the language changed so much in a very short space of time ( possibly only about 50 years) that old spoken language became so unrecognizable using the new symbols. That I think is far to short a period for such a major change, .

[GreekIslandGirl]

You have completely lost the plot. - there is so much wrong in that post that I would have to devote my whole life to a project to illuminate you!

It's your own interpretations, conclusions and inability to make correct connections at the bottom of all this and I'm not repeating things to help you any more.

There is a wealth of work you need to do to build some meaning into your world, but I fear you lack adequate foundations.

Go back to basics, stud.

[supporttheunderdog]

your refusal to reply to some basic points very clearly shows you are an intellectual bully and a coward.

I proclaim my self the winner!

[bigOz]

Why are you wasting your time arguing with a national front racist fanatic? Just tell her what she wants to hear and she can then go and crawl up somewhere and with a bit of luck disappear. You are just giving her a chance to pollute young Cypriot minds by confusing them with her socially very dangerous NAZI views!

HEIL GIG! GREEKS WERE (AND ARE) THE ONLY PURE BLOODED, CIVILISED ANIMAL SPECIMENS (oops! I think I used the wrong word, feel free to tell them Gods) WHO WERE THE GREATEST ARTISTS, SCULPTORS, MATHEMATICIANS, LOVERS, SPORTSMEN, SCIENTISTS, SINGERS, HOMOSEXUALS, LESBIANS WHATEVER, BLESSED BY THEIR ORTHODOX CHURCH IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE OLD MYTHICAL GODS. THE REST OF THE WORLD ARE SENSELESS HALF HUMANS WHO NEED AND DEPEND ON GREEK RACE FOREVER FOR THEIR EXISTENCE! THANK YOU GOD, ALLAH, BANAYIYA, HOLY MOTHER AND SON WHO GRANTED US THIS GREAT RACE AND SAVED THE HUMANITY FROM DESTRUCTION - THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU...

Errrr! GIG your holy highness, I forgot to ask - I bet Jesus was also Greek was he not? Oh, by the way, does "Greek" ethnicity feature as a "race" in any books or any part of history that you can refer us to please. Because I do not see how genetic strains will affect any culture's behaviour if they are a product of mixed races and not unique in themselves.

Hade be! Yürrüüü! Anca gidersin!

[yialousa1971]

Archimedes steam cannon


Leonardo's quotations from books and his lists of titles supply nothing more than a hint as to his occasional literary studies or recreations. It was evidently no part of his ambition to be deeply read and he more than once expressly states that he did not recognise the authority of the Ancients, on scientific questions, which in his day was held paramount. Archimedes is the sole exception, and Leonardo frankly owns his admiration for the illustrious Greek to whose genius his own was so much akin. The Notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci

Architronito e una macchina di fino rame, invenzlon d' Archimede. Leonardo Da Vinci:

The Cicero manuscript later was used by Leonardo Da Vinci who called the device "Architronito" in honour of Archimedes. He produced only drawings of the steam gun but Ioannis Sakas, a Greek expert of the work of Archimedes used this information to build a test device in 12.5.1981. A vessel was heated and when it reached 400 degrees Celsius 6 g of water was enough to produce in 10 seconds steam that expanding could throw a tennis ball size stone 50 meters. The reconstructed Archimedes steam gun by Sakas was only 1/5 the size of the original.

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/CatapultTypes.htm

And for Svetlana

Archimedes Of Syracuse in Russian.

[supporttheunderdog]

History | blackpudding.org
http://www.blackpudding.org/history/

yes the Ancient Greeks seemingly invented Black Pudding

The first known written mention of black pudding was as early as 800 BC when it appeared in Homer’s classic The Odyssey.  In book twenty of his great canon, Homer wrote “As when a man besides a great fire has filled a sausage with fat and blood and turns it this way and that and is very eager to get it quickly roasted…”.

In the same epic work, Homer had Odysseus on his return to Ithica literally fight “around the sausage” for a prize of a stomach stuffed with pig blood and fat.

Although it is doubtful that one man can claim the glory of having created black pudding, it is sometimes attributed to Aphtonite, a cook of ancient Greece. No less an authority than Larousse Gastronomique, the self-proclaimed world’s greatest cookery encyclopedia, credits Aphtonite with being the first to produce the dish.