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What happened to flight MH370?

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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:31 pm

Continue talking to yourself then Paphitis.
I am done with you.
Once a Paphian always a Pahian :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:34 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:Continue talking to yourself then Paphitis.
I am done with you.
Once a Paphian always a Pahian :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:


No offense Pyro, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

I've been in Aviation since the age of 17 when I first started flying. I only started driving a car a few months earlier.
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:03 pm

One of the stranger conspiracy theories links this very tragic event involving flight MH370 to the apparent death from drugs of two ex Special Forces persons, who were acting as security guards on the MEARSK ALABAMA ( the ship of "Captain Philips" fame) and a supposed mysterious cargo latter allegedly destroyed in the USA.

http://greatgameindia.wordpress.com/2014/03/22/mh370-mystery-suspicious-cargo-destroyed-in-a-massive-explosion-near-1945-nuclear-bomb-test-site/
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Flying Horse » Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:57 pm

This thread is by far has the most interesting discussion about this mystery. I've been lurking and reading for several days!

As Paphitis is rather experienced in aviation(something I'd noted in previous threads) I'm more inclined to take some of his points seriously.

Whatever the outcome, that wreckage will be salvaged.........even if by some strange conspiracy, it was planted :roll:
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Demonax » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:26 am

Looking like the pilot suicide theory is gaining...

Malaysia Airlines crash: Suicide mission theory of MH370 investigators

Sources close to investigation tell Telegraph that team working on MH370 mystery believe it was crashed deliberately

Flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean in an apparent suicide mission, well-placed sources revealed have revealed, as Malaysia’s prime minister announced that everyone on the missing aircraft had died.

The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

An official source told The Telegraph that investigators believe “this has been a deliberate act by someone on board who had to have had the detailed knowledge to do what was done ... Nothing is emerging that points to motive.”

Asked about the possibility of a plane malfunction or an on-board fire, the source said: “It just does not hinge together... [The investigators] have gone through processes you do to get the plane where it flew to for eight hours. They point to it being flown in a rational way.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ators.html

MH370 pilot upset over wife's decision to move out and in 'no state of mind to be flying' says long-time friend

The pilot of doomed flight MH370 was devastated over his wife’s decision to move out of their family home, and could have taken the plane for a ‘last joyride’ before it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean killing all 239 people on board, says a long-time friend of the pilot.

The friend, also a pilot, said Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah didn’t appear to be in the right state of mind to be flying, warning that it was ‘very possible that neither the passengers nor the other crew on-board knew what was happening until it was too late’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... riend.html
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Paphitis » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:17 am

Demonax wrote:Looking like the pilot suicide theory is gaining...

Malaysia Airlines crash: Suicide mission theory of MH370 investigators

Sources close to investigation tell Telegraph that team working on MH370 mystery believe it was crashed deliberately

Flight MH370 crashed into the Indian Ocean in an apparent suicide mission, well-placed sources revealed have revealed, as Malaysia’s prime minister announced that everyone on the missing aircraft had died.

The team investigating the Boeing 777’s disappearance believe no malfunction or fire was capable of causing the aircraft’s unusual flight or the disabling of its communications system before it veered wildly off course on a seven-hour silent flight into the sea. An analysis of the flight’s routing, signalling and communications shows that it was flown “in a rational way”.

An official source told The Telegraph that investigators believe “this has been a deliberate act by someone on board who had to have had the detailed knowledge to do what was done ... Nothing is emerging that points to motive.”

Asked about the possibility of a plane malfunction or an on-board fire, the source said: “It just does not hinge together... [The investigators] have gone through processes you do to get the plane where it flew to for eight hours. They point to it being flown in a rational way.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ators.html

MH370 pilot upset over wife's decision to move out and in 'no state of mind to be flying' says long-time friend

The pilot of doomed flight MH370 was devastated over his wife’s decision to move out of their family home, and could have taken the plane for a ‘last joyride’ before it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean killing all 239 people on board, says a long-time friend of the pilot.

The friend, also a pilot, said Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah didn’t appear to be in the right state of mind to be flying, warning that it was ‘very possible that neither the passengers nor the other crew on-board knew what was happening until it was too late’.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... riend.html


I sincerely hope all of this is wrong! :(

Captain Shah had 2 beautiful kids. The daughter is studying in Melbourne and he also has a son I think. He could have got careers for both at MAS.

I fear for his family.

The only way of finding out is to recover the Black Box.
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:27 pm

I ‘ve spent some time thinking about the whole Inmarsat story, and re evaluate the whole matter from the beggining.
Like it or not their data is currently the only scientific tool we have for checking the matter albeit they have not published anything other than the methods they used and some other minor details about that data.
The following are confirmed facts:


a) 3-4 hours after the accident on 8 of March they had all the raw data which they passed on to the Malaysian Government the same day. What was that data? Simply the fact that the plane kept on moving for 7+ hours after take off and then stopped. That data contained nothing else other that 7 timed events.
b)On Monday 10th of March one of their Engineers said "Hmmm… I wonder if it stayed on the network". They checked and all those data did stay on the network.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/ ... cked-video

Network here means their Network of 10 Satelites and ground receivers. Those satelites are on orbit at fix positions 35.786 Km above the Earth. This means the pings should of have been caught not only by one but from something in the range of 3-5 satelites.
Is this important? IT IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT!!
Because the time difference at which each one of the different Satelites had received each separate ping is directly related to the actual distance of the satelite to the plane. These pings are not some sound or the like waves, they are electromegnetic that travel at the speed of light. Light travels at 300,000 Km/second therefore the signal would hit the first satelite within a fracion of a second say 100 microseconds.Then hit the second satelite which is further away at say120 microseconds. And say the 3rd at 130 microseconds. The distances between the satelites are fixed and known. By triangulation one can get the exact position of the plane at each separate ping with mathematical accuracy.
Time measurements in microseconds (which is 1 millionth of a second) is not really an issue for satelites. In fact each one of them is constantly synchronized to the nanosecond (1 millionth of the millionth) via atomic clocks.

The conclusion so far is that Inmarsat knew the exact flight path from the 10th of March.

What happened next? According to Inmarsat they informed the Malaysian Government about their "new findings" on March 12. In turn the Malaysian Government made it public on the 15th and ever since the Internet and the media got flooded with the last known possible position of MH370 (based on ping 7!!!). So is this what they actually informed the Malaysian Government- the possible final position of the plane over a huge arc??

http://gdb.voanews.com/B4D993C4-D3AA-46 ... 0_r1_s.png

http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes ... itions.jpg

This fact always raised my suspision that something aint right here. And I did mention it in previous posts. I mean if it were possible to determine the last possible position based on ping 7 along an arc from their satellite (meaning exact distance) then why they couldn’t do the same for the other 6 pings and using simple mathematics determine the exact route of the plane? I explained with drawings in previous posts that it would really be very easy.

My personal suspicion is that Inmarsat was trying to pass a message that they knew everything about it. And they would eventually reveal everything unless….

What really boosted my suspicion against Inmarsat is their own announcement that in the last few days they used the Doppler effect principle, to re-examine their data and compare the (Doppler shift) patterns they received, with the patterns from other aircraft's in the region. And that they presumably matched with only the southern path and so on and so on, so they finally came to the conclusion that the Aircraft ended it’s route somewhere SW of Australia.

Please feel free to ask anyone with some background in Physics, Mathematics or Engineering about whether what I will say below is right or wrong.

The Doppler effect can certainly be used to determine the speed of an object, and it’s direction of movement relative to a fixed receiver (in this case relative to one of Inmarsarts satellites). If the signal was received by more than one satellites, then a piece of cake to even determine the actual position of the moving object. What’s the problem with this Doppler effect though?
To use the doppler effect you need the wave that carried the signal LIVE. You need to pass it through an oscilloscope and determine it’s wavelength/frequency, amplitude and other parameters usually on a millisecond scale. Then you can save all these data and check them later. You cannot physically save a wave . All you can save is it’s various parameters. If the wave caused a sound event, and you do save the sound event this doesn’t mean you saved the electromagnetic wave that caused it.
An example of saving a wave in LIVE action, is what we do with sound recorders. We can see the sound waves themselves and reproduce the music on computers later because we have recorded the very nature of the wave it created that music. Of course in that case we are talking for thousands of different frequencies and amplitudes per second.
The one thing in common is that you must have equipment specifically designed to save the nature of the waves themselves.Equipment that just record the events that those waves cause are totally useless for the Doppler effect.

The question is:Are the Inmarsat satellites equipped with machinery to record and save the very nature of the electromagnetic waves, or are they just carrying equipment to save the events and the data (in the form of text or computer language) the electromagnetic waves carry with them?
Does your mobile phone save the electromagnetic wave that caused your phone to ring or does it just save the data the wave carried, be it the number of the caller and the event itself that made your phone ring?

The definite answer is no, the Inmarsat satellites are not equipped neither designed to save the very nature of the electromagnetic waves they received, none of the commercial satellites does that, they only process and save the data those waves carried. That data (in the form of text or computer language) contain nothing about the nature of the wave that carried them.

Only Military spying satellites do that. Also some satellites designed to listen for signals from cosmos, in our search for other forms of intelligence. (Yes it’s a fact that Scientists are looking for aliens… but never mind)

So since the Inmarsat Satellites could not use the electromagnetic wave LIVE, were not equipped to save it’s very nature, how the hell did they use the Doppler effect that requires the frequency of the wave at receiving end, and it’s shift from the normal? ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE.

If so, then who gave them the Doppler effect data that enabled them present their latest so called "accurate" findings? Who would ever believe those Doppler effect data were not actually fabricated in advance?

NB. This post does not mean I want to continue any discussion with the known soup eaters. It is actually addressed to those who think we are all stupid on this planet, whereas the real stupid and unethical is THEM.
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:42 pm

I'd like to know how they decided it wasn't going north when their satellites all said it was when it first disappeared.
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby Kikapu » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:45 am

Very informative post, Pyro. Very impressed with your technical knowledge on the subject at hand. Thanks

Just wanted to clarify to some, that you meant to say, "Those satellites are on orbit at fix positions 35,786 Km above the Earth and not 35.786 Km above the Earth."

So the question that comes to mind is, why didn't Inmarsat share the flights path with everyone from day one, because if the flight path was at a constant direction, then the aircraft (crash site) has to be somewhere on that constant path from the point of the 7th ping and the 8th ping that never happened, and since the pings were coming one at every hour and if the plane was going at 500 mph, at most, the crash site was going to be 500 miles from the 7th ping, which was the last ping. They could have started searching for the crash site first thing on March 10th. It has been very obvious to the families that they have not been given the truth from the beginning, and it seems they were correct to question the authorities. Any debris found now of flight MH370 is going to be very far away from the crash site, but still, any debris found now can still be useful to try and find the crash site by measuring the speed and direction (set) of the currents and vector back to the flight path, and where the two lines cross, should give the general area of the crash site.

And by the way, after all the satellite images with the know LAT-LONG co ordinance of the debris and with 26 countries using their planes and sea going vessels, they are yet to find one piece of the flight MH370. Really? :shock:
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Re: What happened to flight MH370?

Postby bill cobbett » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:56 am

Very, very heavy seas Kiks... with only a few hour's breaks in the weather for ships to search. Suspect the subs that are undoubtably in the area will find something soon by way of signals.

As to the INMARSAT data... took time to come up with a pretty novel way to analyse the data from very occasional pings from one of the transponders.

To answer "g"IG's question... they did it by analysing the Doppler shift of those very few signals they picked up. Looking for those very small changes in frequency as the craft moved towards or away from their satellites. ... and then compared those results with shifts in the signals from a number of other known past flights in the area.
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