Cyprus-Forum.com

[boomerang]

The plane either sunk intact, no debris, or landed elsewhere...if it sunk then you gotta wonder as to what it was carrying...

If it crushed there would have been a million floating parts... but to this date none has been seen... strange to say the least...

If it landed gently I wonder how it would have taken to sink?... it must be in shallow waters coz if it was deep waters with a fully pressurize cabin it would have imploded... unless de-pressurized once landed...

This definitely not a suicide mission...

[Pyrpolizer]

I don't have time to follow this story, other than be alerted by the odd news-feed, so thanks for (between you and Kikapu) keeping it real.

From your images: I find it hard to believe anyone has the audacity to conclude picking up signals, and assigning them to a black box, given the poor quality of information detectable. This inference is worse than the information tabloid newspapers throw out every so often that "scientists have discovered the cure to cancer". And then we find out it's just another technician massaging iffy data that belongs in the bin.

The signal images you posted are a sad reflection of whoever is 'in charge' of this search. Where are their controls? I'm sure they get increased noise blips corresponding to what they suggest is "signal" all the time! They are just randomly making conclusions hoping that, by chance, they will come across something - anything!

Have they given up on floating objects? Of course. Soon they will give up on "signals".

After all this time, there are no two bits of information that tally with each other.

Again, I remain mystified as to why our 'world leaders' of space-exploration and earthly-monitoring remain so quiet on the matter (like someone with something to hide).

To set the record straight GIG my pictures are not from the REAL signal itself but from the audible signal the Australians produced out of the REAL signal.
One can draw only limited information from my pictures, mainly the amount of noise present, time intervals, and some other minor info.
Other than that yes the quality is terrible,but what else would you expect from a technology that got stuck in the 50s on such important issues?
I agree with the rest of your comments. It looks to me the whole idea is to convince the whole world of what they want them to believe with absolutely no evidence. I suspect after a few days they will announce they found nothing, but they will continue indefinitely imish. Until everyone forgets...

[Pyrpolizer]

The plane either sunk intact, no debris, or landed elsewhere...if it sunk then you gotta wonder as to what it was carrying...

If it crushed there would have been a million floating parts... but to this date none has been seen... strange to say the least...

If it landed gently I wonder how it would have taken to sink?... it must be in shallow waters coz if it was deep waters with a fully pressurize cabin it would have imploded... unless de-pressurized once landed...

This definitely not a suicide mission...

Haven't you noticed we have police around and you aren't allowed to say anything out of the ordinary boomers

[boomerang]

Hiya pyro long time mate....


If it was a suicide mission what would have been the point of flying the opposite direction.... and if it was a suicide mission the pilot would have nose dived it from 38000feet reaching mach 10 turning it into a fireball... again debris would have littered the ocean... they will probably pin it on him with fabricated evidence.... but who fucking knows, he probably was in with the plotters...

You are right though we will never find out... the daily coverage is in drabs these days, it's slowly going off the radar... there will come a day when they say we found it but can't get to it because it's too deep... wait for it, it's coming...

Another point is don't you find it strange the NSA which monitors every phone call and every keystroke typed that they don't monitor every flight which is an easier task?... yeah right...


The whole affair stinks... thinking of the passengers though...I remember reading this sitting at Hong Kong airport catching a flight back home... and I am flying out this Sunday... man all this shit scares the bejezus out of you...

[Pyrpolizer]

Hiya pyro long time mate....


If it was a suicide mission what would have been the point of flying the opposite direction.... and if it was a suicide mission the pilot would have nose dived it from 38000feet reaching mach 10 turning it into a fireball... again debris would have littered the ocean... they will probably pin it on him with fabricated evidence.... but who fucking knows, he probably was in with the plotters...

You are right though we will never find out... the daily coverage is in drabs these days, it's slowly going off the radar... there will come a day when they say we found it but can't get to it because it's too deep... wait for it, it's coming...


The whole affair stinks... thinking of the passengers though...I remember reading this sitting at Hong Kong airport catching a flight back home... and I am flying out this Sunday... man all this shit scares the bejezus out of you...

I had my wife on a plane those days, exactly the same feelings boomers, I've spent 2 hours counting the minutes until the damn plane landed

[Pyrpolizer]

And…the latest news in this world of misinformation;
Lots of equipment use exactly the same frequency as black boxes.

# Diving equipment



http://uncw.edu/nurc/systems/toolmanual/beacon.pdf

NURC-UNCW has a variety of acoustic pinger beacons available for use. Helle
27XX pingers are available in 27 or 37 kHz frequencies for deployment of equipment to 6,000 feet seawater and have a battery life of one month.

[Paphitis]

Ahh, fresh again without too much distortion, back to our little Cypriot forum for some further information, meant for the few who could possibly understand it.

There has been a suspicion (at other forums) that the pings detected by the beacons might be fake because their pulse duration was way out of manufacturer’s specs.
In the end it was proven that without the original signal which by it’s very nature is not even audible to the human ear nobody can draw such conclusion.

a)the signal carries a huge amount of noise

Of copurse there is a large amount of noise. Ships, wildlife (whales, dolphins etc), Submarines, and who knows what else. They filter all the foreign frequencies out.

b)The pings in most instances occur at times the noise is more than the signal itself.

That is always the case when there is a big huge ship over the top.

c)The signal can only be analyzed using specialized software whose spectrogram and audible sounds (as published on video by the Australians) are nothing but an aid to the user of the software.

Yes they do have specialized software specifically designed for this kind of thing.

d)the frequency of the signal as announced is 32.3 Khz instead of the expected 37.5 Khz .This is a big difference by all accounts.

The ELTs change frequency as the batteries get weaker and the signal itself is distorted by a number of environmental factors including water. The Auithorities have already discussed that in detail.

e)It might be impossible to confirm the pitch of the signal with all that distortion even by the analyzer of the original signal using special software. The pitch of the signal together with the frequency and the time intervals are the 3 parameters required to verify beyond any reasonable doubt that it comes from a black box.

They have already looked at all the parameters they need.

f)The Doppler effect principle cannot be used because of the unknown effects of the media (which in this case is water) the background noise, and the huge frequency shift mentioned in "d"

I will leave this to scientists. They are however looking at how the signal fades in and out to gauge possible distance.

g)one set of pings comes at intervals of 1.06 secs which leads to the conclusion they originate from a man made source

Which makes it consistent with a Black Box.

h)There is another set of pings that show up randomly, whose timing is totally irrelevant to the 1.06 multiples

Anything outside this parameter could be a false positive.

i)The frequency of the audible sound that they published ranges from a few Hz to about 20Kz and that is strange.

Anything outside the 3 to 4 KHz range is filtered out.

Because of the above it is possible the pings are the result of harmonics from man made sources other than the MH370 Black boxes.

What man made harmonics?

[Paphitis]

I'm not talking about any rouge subs in the area that may be sending false ping signals. I'm talking about a subs from the "TEAM".

I was too. Any sub that is sabotaging (something I believe to be impossible) is a rogue whether it is a US or Australian Sub. If they get caught, which is inevitable, then the shit will well and truly hit the fan.

But the subs who may be sending false ping signals are not hiding to play a "cat & mouse" games. They are in fact with the "TEAM". The Chinese can only know there are subs in the area. But do they know they might have sent false ping signals?

I do not believe this to be possible. I can't see the NSA or ASIC briefing the Flight Crews to not talk about any Submarines under the Search Ships which also makes the Sub very vulnerable in itself. The US or Australia wouldn't be stupid enough to attempt to pull of such a stunt and Australia will lose all credibility on the international stage.

Sorry, can't see it and I am not buying!

There have been many gaps created in the last month regarding MH370, which there has been one misleading crash site discoveries after another, and it is still going on with these ping signals. Surely if the ping signals were coming from a stationary location of the Black Boxes, it's almost whereabouts would have been established by now and the next step would be to send submersibles to try and retrieve it, despite not having had a confirmed and proven crash site.

I don't have any issue with that. In fact I am amazed they have got this far and feel very encouraged because they have come a long way under extremely difficult and unusual circumstances. They never searched at the arse end just for fun, but were acting on scientific analysis and conclusions which can only be derived from a long list of assumptions - one being aircraft configuration and fuel consumption (once again presuming the aircraft was not deliberately ditched.

But if the possible crash site is on the Southern Arch based on Inmarsat, that finding was made about 3 weeks ago, so why weren't the ping signal detectors not deployed 3 weeks ago when the batteries in the Black Boxes were full and their signals very strong and not wait until the batteries are near dead. Do you see where I'm going with this my friend?

Because it would be impossible to cover the area in a reasonable amount of time which is why it was more important to find debris so that they can refine the search area down. They would never have found the signal with the ping detector but they were using Sonar all along from the very beginning which makes sense. All the Australian, American, and British Ships have Sonar. Some of the Chinese Ships have Sonar as well.

Well, the plane was not shot down at the Southern Indian Ocean where the search is going on now. If it were shot down, it would have been at a different location further north by about a thousand miles. Any debris found in the Southern Indian Ocean if the plane was shot down much further north, then the debris would be planted there.

The plane was not shot down anywhere! Such a thing can be done without any evidence from Satellites which can detect a missile being launched anywhere. Then there is the debris which would have been found by anyone from a Merchant Ship to a fishing boat if it were shot down further North or around Diego Garcia.

It is never good when a passenger jet is shot down by any military for any reason, even if warranted. It is as close as you can come to being murdering innocent people, just as it was when the Russians shot down South Korean passenger jet KAL 007 or the Americans shooting down Iranian passenger jet flight IR 655. Aside from financial cost, it has much larger problems with political costs, especially when most were Chinese citizens on MH370. Btw, Pyro reported it has only cost about $20 million plus in total so far, which is about a month. Mostly going to jet fuel and fuel for the ships I guess. The personal are all military, therefore, those costs are covered.

No it can't be considered as murder. Each country is allowed to secure its Sovereign Airspace from any external attack or threat. A country like Iran or North Korea would shoot you down the second you violate their Airspace. Countries like the US and Australia WILL NOT do that as an airspace violation is not enough to trigger a response off involving a shoot down unless it was a military aircraft. For the US and Australia, a shoot down is authorized only when all other avenues are exhausted. First the aircraft is intercepted and identified and then given clear instructions to land at a particular airport. if the aircraft does not respond, then they may authorize to have it shot down only when it becomes obvious that the aircraft is a threat to civilians or military personnel.

No it has gone well beyond $200 million by now. Australia's contribution is over half of that apparently. These costs are not covered by the Defence Budget but over and beyond.

Actually, as far as I'm aware, the findings from the Black Boxes from flight UA93 were never released to the public, but were ONLY given to the relatives of the victims on that flight. Who knows what the US government fed them for information. We did not even see any wreckage of flight UA93 but only a creator in the ground as if the ground swallowed the whole plane. Really?

I think they have been released by now. The findings of the Black Box are never released to the public other than a few snippets to keep the media at bay. The findings are usually publish into a full ATSB Report with all the findings. They are first released to the regulator, and then to the Airline which has a right of reply before being released to the public.

As for the "Lets Roll" comment, it is all to do with diverting people’s attention from shooting down the jet, that's all..

Why? How?

Are you saying that if the passengers had knowledge of the earlier WTC attacks, they would not try and do something before they are killed?

Are you saying that the passengers will not do anything? Humans are capable of many things when facing death and storming the cockpit is not at all unreasonable.

[Paphitis]

Ahh, fresh again without too much distortion, back to our little Cypriot forum for some further information, meant for the few who could possibly understand it.

There has been a suspicion (at other forums) that the pings detected by the beacons might be fake because their pulse duration was way out of manufacturer’s specs.
In the end it was proven that without the original signal which by it’s very nature is not even audible to the human ear nobody can draw such conclusion.

a)the signal carries a huge amount of noise
b)The pings in most instances occur at times the noise is more than the signal itself.
c)The signal can only be analyzed using specialized software whose spectrogram and audible sounds (as published on video by the Australians) are nothing but an aid to the user of the software.
d)the frequency of the signal as announced is 32.3 Khz instead of the expected 37.5 Khz .This is a big difference by all accounts.
e)It might be impossible to confirm the pitch of the signal with all that distortion even by the analyzer of the original signal using special software. The pitch of the signal together with the frequency and the time intervals are the 3 parameters required to verify beyond any reasonable doubt that it comes from a black box.
f)The Doppler effect principle cannot be used because of the unknown effects of the media (which in this case is water) the background noise, and the huge frequency shift mentioned in "d"
g)one set of pings comes at intervals of 1.06 secs which leads to the conclusion they originate from a man made source
h)There is another set of pings that show up randomly, whose timing is totally irrelevant to the 1.06 multiples
i)The frequency of the audible sound that they published ranges from a few Hz to about 20Kz and that is strange.

Because of the above it is possible the pings are the result of harmonics from man made sources other than the MH370 Black boxes.

Nice and clear. Thanks.

(For all it's worth, I'm pleased this forum is about exerting challenges, rather than regurgitating officialdom and seeking accolade. I like how you back your opinions with scientific evidence rather than appeals to "trust". )

Thank you GIG. It's encouraging to know that at least some people are thinking.
Here's a copy of the images i posted elsewhere regarding my points a,b,c,i and j






I 'll try find the example regarding the pitch duration of the signal and post it too.

What are these pictures Pyro? They don't even state what they are measuring!

[Paphitis]

I don't have time to follow this story, other than be alerted by the odd news-feed, so thanks for (between you and Kikapu) keeping it real.

From your images: I find it hard to believe anyone has the audacity to conclude picking up signals, and assigning them to a black box, given the poor quality of information detectable. This inference is worse than the information tabloid newspapers throw out every so often that "scientists have discovered the cure to cancer". And then we find out it's just another technician massaging iffy data that belongs in the bin.

The signal images you posted are a sad reflection of whoever is 'in charge' of this search. Where are their controls? I'm sure they get increased noise blips corresponding to what they suggest is "signal" all the time! They are just randomly making conclusions hoping that, by chance, they will come across something - anything!

Have they given up on floating objects? Of course. Soon they will give up on "signals".

After all this time, there are no two bits of information that tally with each other.

Again, I remain mystified as to why our 'world leaders' of space-exploration and earthly-monitoring remain so quiet on the matter (like someone with something to hide).

You would be the only person in the world that has anything critical to say about the search to be honest.

The Authorities have been very transparent and released sensible information in a very timely manner but they are NOT going to outside of that just to placate your gossip and hinder the investigation process.

This is an Airline "Crash" and criminal investigation.

They have not at all concluded beyond any doubt that they have detected the Black Box but have indicated that they are optimistic and that the signals detected so far are consistent and need to be investigated and verified. What this means is that they want to visually see the wreckage on the ocean floor first.