Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oceanside50]

Source: AAP
"...AN oil slick in the southern Indian Ocean is not linked to a missing Malaysian Airlines jet, Australia's search agency says.
The slick was found in a focus search area on Sunday, further raising hopes that the global effort to find flight MH370 might have narrowed in on the patch of ocean where the airliner went down on March 8, carrying 239 passengers and crew.
But late on Thursday, the Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) ruled out any connection.
"Preliminary analysis of the sample collected ... has confirmed that it is not aircraft engine oil or hydraulic fluid."
Despite the news the search will continue throughout the Easter long weekend, with both aerial and underwater sweeps planned.
A Bluefin-21 underwater drone is scanning the Indian Ocean seabed, more than 2000 kilometres northwest of Perth, but is yet to find the wreckage.
The JACC also refuted US Navy claims from earlier in the week that the drone would take up to two months to sweep the search area..."

[repulsewarrior]

...sadly, it appears that there are many holes in this investigation, i feel for the families, (and i still hope that the passengers are alive, as absurd as that seems to be), very disturbing as an investigation, it continues to remain lacking in answers, rather, inducing bigger questions, about our ability to answer, about the frontiers we imagined were ours, in our control. with the greatest respect to the missing and their families, much good will come from these efforts, technologically (as in probing the depths of the sea, black boxes, etc.), and in the protocol (as in, how an airplane full of Civilians travels safe), as well as the socio-political interventions that having been demonstrated, provide a Human scale, even without finding the missing aircraft, to date, as such a success (we know it is possible, the closeness of these players whereas in any other circumstance unlikely to say the least).

[Paphitis]

I'm deeply concerned that they are just going through the motions.

(i) The excitement over satellite-spotted debris was easily shown to be a rubbishy lead. Fine. Optimistic!

(ii) The broohaha over the oil find was exactly that - broohaha - because they were never going to be able to prove it was from the missing plane in the first place. They could ONLY prove that it wasn't. Because they knew this, they bought time and took 2 days when they would have had the results in less than 2 hours. Misleadingly Optimistic!

(iii) Given all the other incredible mistakes so far, I am deeply sceptical about the need to keep up optimism based on the mystery "pings" reported, conveniently, just prior to the expected end-life of the batteries such that they could NEVER be verified by others/later. And of course, there is no PHYSICAL evidence for these pings for anyone to scrutinise other than the ridiculous noise-signal scribble-charts.

Furthermore, the ship that was supposed to have detected these "pings" was reported as having a detection range of 1.8Km ( 1.12miles or 5,900feet).

The Ocean Shield is dragging a pinger locator at a depth of 1.9 miles. It is designed to detect signals at a range of 1.12 miles, meaning it would need to be almost on top of the recorders to detect them if they were on the ocean floor, which is about 2.8 miles deep.

BUT, they have since sent drone-subs down and we know now that the depth of the ocean in that region is in EXCESS of 4.5Km. So they never could detect genuine black-box-pings from a sunken plane at such an unknown depth, right?

- The only current lead, the ping-detection story, is full of holes.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/hope-extin ... box-pings/

The drone works best when it is 300m above the ocean floor because that gives its sensors the ability to server 500m on its starboard and port side.

Therefore the drone is ideal for depths up to 4800m and the ocean depth is well within that. There may be the occasional canyon or depression which goes beyond that but it is rare.

They are also procuring an RAUV which will deploy to the area soon and this thing will be able to go down to 6000m.

[Paphitis]

It looks that it pays posting data in this forum rather than keeping them on my desktop and losing them.
Here's the data
cyprus41865-540.html#p784805
32.3 Khz detected compared to 37.5 emitted.
I forgot to mention another critical parameter of the specs .The pitch duration emitted should be 10 milliseconds.
10 ms is a quite sharp and irritating noise. (I have posted samples before). They have not announced the pitch of the signal they received but from first look at their video the "clicks" were very long probably about 100 ms. I did downloaded and measured some of those they were indeed too long.
The power of the signal emitted is about 165 db and we know from facts that it should weaken by 06 db per km-if my memory is correct
So we have 4 parameters

frequency emitted 37.5 Khz
Number of clicks: 1 every 1.1 seconds
Amplitude emitted 165 db
Pitch duration: 10 mili seconds.

They received at 32.3 Khz
Number of clicks: Some at 1.1 seconds some at random
Amplitude received:unknown
Pitch duration received: >100 ms

If it weren't for the number of clicks being consistent (and even for those i cannot be sure because i only counted 3 of them) I would personally scrap the whole thing. But then again, i don't have any advanced software, nor the original signal to test it myself nor the amplitude, I can set a number of reasons that the frequency shifted so much, so in a nutshell I have to accept they got true signals within expected parameters.
Now if those were from the black box or from anything else who knows?

NB.Notice the Original signal at 37.5 Khz is not audible to the human ear. You need specially designed detectors to get it.
To make it audible you need to convert it to below 20 Khz.

My apologies. The frequency of the is 37.5Khz. The lowest detected was 33.2 KHz. The first three were right on the money. All were deemed to be consistent with the Black Box ELTs.

If MH370 is found in this location then it was without doubt NEVER shot down by anyone. There is no reason to do so. Also well beyond the range of any American or Australian Fighters or Missiles. The closest military site is RAAF Learmonth and just north of that is the joint US and Australian submarine communications station. Been there and no the area very well.

This base is probably one of the most important bases in the world. It controls the entire US and Australian Submarine Fleets. Any command to launch any ICBMs would go via Harold E Holt just north of RAAF Learmonth. This is where Armageddon begins.

This Military base far outweighs Diego Garcia in importance. Probably one of the most important establishments on the planet.

[Paphitis]

Please please stop the assumptions.The data and the analyses themselves will have to be revealed in Court and then you will see how accurate they were. AT BEST they would only prove a certain degree of probability nothing more than that.And if the probability was say 60% you will see what happens.

No they do not!

According to the regulations, the details of the investigation, including all data have to be tabled to the Aviation Regulator in Malaysia. It is up to the regulator to decide if there is a case to answer in court.

There is no court that can bypass the aviation regulator's jurisdiction.

http://www.bfnlaw.com/resources/legal-i ... mh370.html

While the search for the aircraft has been conducted by many nations, in accordance with international law the investigation itself may involve a more limited group. Investigators from the air carrier’s domicile (Malaysia) and that of the aircraft’s and engine manufacturers (United States and England) are certain to be involved in the investigation, with likely assistance from other nations in light of the apparent maritime connection to the accident.

I think you will find that whilst Malaysia maintain complete jurisdiction by law, the world's best investigators and analysts will be in Kuala Lumpur in an advisory role and leading the investigation. The US will have a role to play. Boeing would be all over it for sure. Other countries involved would be Singapore, Australia and China.

[Paphitis]

...sadly, it appears that there are many holes in this investigation, i feel for the families, (and i still hope that the passengers are alive, as absurd as that seems to be), very disturbing as an investigation, it continues to remain lacking in answers, rather, inducing bigger questions, about our ability to answer, about the frontiers we imagined were ours, in our control. with the greatest respect to the missing and their families, much good will come from these efforts, technologically (as in probing the depths of the sea, black boxes, etc.), and in the protocol (as in, how an airplane full of Civilians travels safe), as well as the socio-political interventions that having been demonstrated, provide a Human scale, even without finding the missing aircraft, to date, as such a success (we know it is possible, the closeness of these players whereas in any other circumstance unlikely to say the least).

Your hope is very false!

The investigation is always going to have some big questions. There is no Black Box, aircraft is lost thousands of kms from its original course and there is limited SSR and Primary Radar tracking.

They were always pushing shit uphill from day 1!

[Paphitis]

I'm deeply concerned that they are just going through the motions.

(i) The excitement over satellite-spotted debris was easily shown to be a rubbishy lead. Fine. Optimistic!

(ii) The broohaha over the oil find was exactly that - broohaha - because they were never going to be able to prove it was from the missing plane in the first place. They could ONLY prove that it wasn't. Because they knew this, they bought time and took 2 days when they would have had the results in less than 2 hours. Misleadingly Optimistic!

(iii) Given all the other incredible mistakes so far, I am deeply sceptical about the need to keep up optimism based on the mystery "pings" reported, conveniently, just prior to the expected end-life of the batteries such that they could NEVER be verified by others/later. And of course, there is no PHYSICAL evidence for these pings for anyone to scrutinise other than the ridiculous noise-signal scribble-charts.

Furthermore, the ship that was supposed to have detected these "pings" was reported as having a detection range of 1.8Km ( 1.12miles or 5,900feet).

The Ocean Shield is dragging a pinger locator at a depth of 1.9 miles. It is designed to detect signals at a range of 1.12 miles, meaning it would need to be almost on top of the recorders to detect them if they were on the ocean floor, which is about 2.8 miles deep.

BUT, they have since sent drone-subs down and we know now that the depth of the ocean in that region is in EXCESS of 4.5Km. So they never could detect genuine black-box-pings from a sunken plane at such an unknown depth, right?

- The only current lead, the ping-detection story, is full of holes.

http://nypost.com/2014/04/08/hope-extin ... box-pings/

It's like the Paphitis and Pyroliser show in this thread. I felt the need to quote you GiG!

There are a lot of holes everywhere in this mystery......
The biggest one being at the bottom of the deep blue sea, catching fishes for my tea....and no.aeroplane

Somewhere in the deep lies MH370. We know this as fact.

The question is where? The Australians have 1 lead and 1 lead only. That is the 4 detections that were found to be consistent with a Black Box. Hopefully they find the wreckage.

If they do not, then there really is nowhere else to go. It is really is not feasible to start searching millions of sq mi of ocean floor with the Bluefin-21. It only does 40 sq kms a day.

As a result, the wreckage will never be found and the Aussies will abort the mission eventually. The relatives will have no answers and no closure. Some may still be trying to call the mobile phones and hope their relative just one day walks through the door.

[Paphitis]

The may try doing a limited sea bed search along the entire handshake arc and 5 kms either side. That might be semi feasible but other than that it's over.

The Australians will have to call it one day!

However, I remind everyone that the lead they have is quite solid and there is plenty of work to do before we get to this point.

[Pyrpolizer]

Please please stop the assumptions.The data and the analyses themselves will have to be revealed in Court and then you will see how accurate they were. AT BEST they would only prove a certain degree of probability nothing more than that.And if the probability was say 60% you will see what happens.

No they do not!

According to the regulations, the details of the investigation, including all data have to be tabled to the Aviation Regulator in Malaysia. It is up to the regulator to decide if there is a case to answer in court.

There is no court that can bypass the aviation regulator's jurisdiction.

http://www.bfnlaw.com/resources/legal-i ... mh370.html

While the search for the aircraft has been conducted by many nations, in accordance with international law the investigation itself may involve a more limited group. Investigators from the air carrier’s domicile (Malaysia) and that of the aircraft’s and engine manufacturers (United States and England) are certain to be involved in the investigation, with likely assistance from other nations in light of the apparent maritime connection to the accident.

I think you will find that whilst Malaysia maintain complete jurisdiction by law, the world's best investigators and analysts will be in Kuala Lumpur in an advisory role and leading the investigation. The US will have a role to play. Boeing would be all over it for sure. Other countries involved would be Singapore, Australia and China.

The point is the RELATIVES can sue everyone be it Malaysian airlines, the Malaysian Government, Boeing, Rolls Royce etc.And they can claim separate damages from each one over and above what the Insurance companies may give for their own liability.
In fact I already know one (European Scientist living in China) who was employed by a law firm for suing the Malaysian Government. This guy's major concern is to make them disclose the Inmarsat data and calculations. The problem for them is to make their sue in such a way to make them reveal data. Initially they thought of suing the Malaysian Government for incompetence now they are re-evaluating the situation. In any case the Malaysian Government would have no other option than open up her "sealed" files to defend herself. Or else pay whatever damages anyone will be suing her for.Notice this law suits can be filed in any country, including Malaysia.

[Pyrpolizer]

I think before continuing, I should post this link to an EXCELLENT video that explains how the ping signals get affected in deep seas.
Pay special attention to where it says <SOUND FIXING AND RANGING LAYER> and to the point he says this layer is generally <1/2 MILE -800M DOWN> and is due to <SALINITY, WATER PRESSURE, TEMPERATURE ETC>

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/11/tech/ ... le_sidebar