Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

Nice post ocean couldn't agree more.

...indeed, vp, you did not even live in Cyprus pre '74, and what if your premise is untrue (or true, for that matter)? the "peace" we have today, therefore does not come from the militarisation, you give Cypriots too little credit, just look at the same Army in its conflict with other "non-Turks", just look at the other cultures, and Peoples, in the region, and then tell me about "Greeks" amok.

Lordo, whatever you want to say, counting bullets and guns, Turkey, it's Army, are the occupiers. in that comparison the, as you say, gc national guard, is highly outnumbered, wouldn't you say?

...no solution without a Cyprus, whole, can work; anything else is unnatural.

but, once again, what would i know, coming from a "mixed" village.

[Lordo]

how is the gc national guard outnumbered. when it comes to pre-74 I am afraid most of the people here have no idea what it was like. what makarios our president said when he was told that thet tcs were suffering in the enclaves speaks volumes.

what was it he said. let them boil in their juices. in reality thats exactly what most people think now about tcs. so really there is no change.

as to peace, gcs will never understand what it is to be in surrounded 24/7 365. so when they say there is no peace now it is almost laughable, if only it was not so serious. you first live like tcs did in pre-74 and then can talk about the meaning of peace. in chaurlis case of course they only understand piss.

[boulio]

how is the gc national guard outnumbered. when it comes to pre-74 I am afraid most of the people here have no idea what it was like. what makarios our president said when he was told that thet tcs were suffering in the enclaves speaks volumes.

what was it he said. let them boil in their juices. in reality thats exactly what most people think now about tcs. so really there is no change.

as to peace, gcs will never understand what it is to be in surrounded 24/7 365. so when they say there is no peace now it is almost laughable, if only it was not so serious. you first live like tcs did in pre-74 and then can talk about the meaning of peace. in chaurlis case of course they only understand piss.

Lordo if your talking about the enclaves surrounded 24/7 365 days there is the famous detailed in great length UN report I believe issued in 1965 concerning the self imposed exile.

[repulsewarrior]

...yes, i remember driving through Galatia, my uncle never liked to bring us along when he went that way. true, compared to other villages, it was crowded, bigger, and more brown, a lot less white as it goes for walls...

...and yet, beyond that murky time where we played as children, and our parents suffered great anxiety if we were away from them, there was village life, mine i imagine no different to others "mixed" as they were called, the things that remain unchanging, its routines, tied to harvests and trees; my fondest memories, in those fields, lunches of bread, cheese, and salad, we shared as communities, cooperators, neighbours, pride in a gathering system most socialised because it had been refined over many years, and as a result collectively most effecient.

...but what has this to do with the here and now, this is what was taken away from us, the ability to associate, and through free expression better our own lives, more than that what "it" left us is the squaller of an Ignorance that is kept alive through fear, an impotence, you are suggesting we should give up to, and accept, as Cypriots, to be kept apart and labelled, "Greek", (read: not "Turkish"), and "Turkish" (read: those "Turkish" enough).

why persist in dismissing the progress that can be made by defending each other, and against the complicity that is based on a mythic rivalry that must stop? Cyprus is not well represented by its leadership, if it aims to merely defend the existence of a "Greekness" and a "Turkishness"; 20 million crossings are an indication of this.

[Viewpoint]

how is the gc national guard outnumbered. when it comes to pre-74 I am afraid most of the people here have no idea what it was like. what makarios our president said when he was told that thet tcs were suffering in the enclaves speaks volumes.

what was it he said. let them boil in their juices. in reality thats exactly what most people think now about tcs. so really there is no change.

as to peace, gcs will never understand what it is to be in surrounded 24/7 365. so when they say there is no peace now it is almost laughable, if only it was not so serious. you first live like tcs did in pre-74 and then can talk about the meaning of peace. in chaurlis case of course they only understand piss.

Lordo if your talking about the enclaves surrounded 24/7 365 days there is the famous detailed in great length UN report I believe issued in 1965 concerning the self imposed exile.

How comic, if you feel thretened you automatical try to disassociate with the individuals who want to kill you or do you just continue to mingle as nothing is happening. You people really need to get to grips with what really happened, talk to any TC who livied through those times and they will tell you about the fear the suffered at the hands of the GCs and how even your best friend turned on you, you were not safe on your own thats why Tcs started to come together and "impose sel exile" they were trying to save their lives and keep away from their murderers. You should talk to my father in law hes now 80 years old and remembers very well what when on, he lived through the Kaymaklı incidents and Sampson who placed a Turkish flag around his neck rounded up TCs in a truck then took them away to be killed....so dont give me bull shit about self exile, if you are afraid for your life you would fly to the moon if it meant getting away from enosis starved terorists and their supports be it active or silent.

[Lordo]

i like it when assholes cant help but show their assholeness.

so boulio you are a clever gc chap are you not. so if the enclaves were self imposed why were we held at checkpoints for upto 6 hours in the midday sun by your brave eokamen. why were your brave men stopping material coming into the enclaves including baby milk.

will you remain an asshole all your life or will wake up one of these days. self imposed indeed. sometimes we had to go through 20 check points to go from one place an another. we must have furking imagined them you assholes.

[erolz66]

Lordo if your talking about the enclaves surrounded 24/7 365 days there is the famous detailed in great length UN report I believe issued in 1965 concerning the self imposed exile.

Boulio you really should read this, if you have interest in the truth from that period, that is.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/Patrick-chp%203.html

and a small extract

The author's investigations reveal that the overwhelming majority of Turk-Cypriot refugees moved only after Turk-Cypriots had been killed, abducted or harrassed by Greek-Cypriots within their village, quarter, or in the local vicinity. Most refugees expected to return to their homes within a few months at the most, and it was this assumption of an early return that facilitated their departure in the first place. In some instances, the evacuation of certain villages was encouraged by the expectation of an imminent invasion by Turkey. There was an understandable desire to withdraw from Greek-Cypriot areas which might become bombing targets of the Turkish air force. It was only in a few instances, after January 1964, that the Turkish-Cypriot Leadership took the initiative in recommending that certain villages should be evacuated. However, it is known that such advice was not always followed. Normally the Leadership was approached by village elders only after the villagers had already decided to evacuate, and they sought the Leadership's assistance In the pro- vision of transport and refugee housing. Any official administrative organization to direct refugee movements, or to oversee their welfare, was not established until the bulk of the refugees had already moved on their own initiative.

It just is not true to make out that TC choose to flee their homes and go an live in 'enclaves' in the numbers they did and the manner they did in order to pursue a political agenda of taksim. People do not flee their homes for such reasons. They might conceivably leave their homes, packing up everything and having them transported, but even that is doubtful and it is not what happened. They fled, taking no more than they could carry with them, leaving behind their homes and the fields and lands that supported them and had done for generations. The truth is much simpler - they fled their homes out of fear as a result of GC force and the threat of it being used against them.

This is I am afraid one of the most persistent propaganda lies, that TC fled their homes in 64 under orders from TMT and in fear of TMT and it is just not true. It was violence by GC, including GC government officers at the highest levels, against TC and the threat of such that caused such numbers of TC to flee their homes in this period.

[boulio]

uh and you should read the UN report

[erolz66]

uh and you should read the UN report

Assuming you mean the Galo Plaza Report then I have indeed read it. I will even give you a link to it if you like.

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/galo_plaza_report.html

That you think this shows that (ordinary) TC fled their homes as a 'self imposed' exile in the pursuit of the political goal of taksim and such movement of people was unconnected to organised GC violence against TC in 64, is quite telling to me.

As I am currently behaving as if your are not the kind of GC that can only see their own sides propaganda, I ask you in this spirit, just using common sense and your understanding of human behaviour, if you really believe such numbers of TC fled their homes because TMT said , do this and some time later we will get a separate state ? Do you really think people behave in such ways ? Do you think if the GC leadership said today to all the GC refugees of 74, leave the homes you have established since 74 and return to live in tented cities, for this will further our political aims re Cyprus, that 10s of thousands of them would flee their current homes, leaving behind anything they could not carry in the space of a few months ? Of course they would not and yet you somehow seem to believe that TC fled their homes in 64 not because of GC violence and fear of such against them, but because TMT told them to in pursuit of Taksim ?

[boulio]

Firstly im not a GC but Greek.i Think it has to do with both items of forces by the tmt and fear of gc both playing off each other.But the actual imposition and force was exerted by tmt in the communities that fled.