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words of the wise?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Bananiot » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:13 am

I have seen the Christofias interview in the same newspaper. All along I supported that Christofias has worked in unison with Papadopoulos and he merely pays lip service to federation, dust in the eyes of AKEL supporters who in their vast majority genuinely want a solution.

I am very worried about the policies of our government. This week we seem to be opening another front, this time against the USA, Britain and the EE. We are accusing them that they want us to bring back the A plan as it is. In fact, this is a lie. They have said to our government to specify any changes to the plan that we require. Papadopoulos has done nothing for four months and he will not reveal his thoughts. He is leading us to more isolation and down the drain as our stakeholders in the EE are fast becoming aware that we are not serious partners. In fact, we hear loud voices against the EE and really if we do not like the club we fought so hard to join, we should pull out. Its very tough to get in but, its a siege to get out!
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Postby metecyp » Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:14 pm

Papadopoulos has done nothing for four months and he will not reveal his thoughts. He is leading us to more isolation and down the drain as our stakeholders in the EE are fast becoming aware that we are not serious partners

This worries me too as a TC. I respect the fact that 75% of GCs do not accept the Annan plan as it is but the GC side should explain to TCs what they want. Do they want changes to the plan? Do they want a new plan? Do they want parition? Tell us what you want so there's something to talk about, something to look forward to.

As a side note, it made me sad this summer to watch the shores of Kyrenia under heavy construction. Almost everywhere, there are villas eing built mainly for the British, German, French, etc. I fear that I won't be able to find a spot for myself in 10 years when I want to return back to Cyprus. Time is passing by and it's bad for all Cypriots unlike what Papadopoulos thinks.
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Postby Piratis » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:25 pm

then the prospects of a (fair) settelment under his leadership would seem remote to me.


You are talking like Papadopoulos is the one that by himself can solve the problem. We changed 5 presidents since 74. What prevents a solution is the cause of Turkey and the leadership of TCs for partition or disguised partition.

week we seem to be opening another front, this time against the USA, Britain and the EE.


The other front is with the UK, and they opened it not us. Since they fire at us anyways why not to respond? I hope our respond will materialize with the way we treat their bases.

By the way, you said that Papadopoulos received 2% in some presidential elections and you didn't apologize for this lie yet.

the GC side should explain to TCs what they want.


What we want is a unitary state. Are you sure that you want to hear what we want, or what we can compromise to? If its the second, do you know any good politician that will go in public up front and declare all his compromises? For example we had agreed as a maximum compromise to have a solution based on federation. What happened? They used our maximum compromise and balanced it out with the TC maximum demands. This happened several times since then and as a result we got a plan that was 95% the Turkish position.

Personally I started to realize what probably Papadopoulos knows long time already: That a fair solution will come only when the balance of power will change.
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answer

Postby PEACE » Sun Sep 19, 2004 7:05 pm

So,one by one i want a clear statement to this question...

:arrow: Why had Papadopulos been elected?

Please give a reply with brief and clear sentence.



Piratis wrote:What we want is a unitary state.


You want an Unitary state,huh? Greek Cypriot side accepted federal solution in 1977-1979 Summit Agreements.

Even if we'll return to Republic Of Cyprus 1977-1979 Summit Agreements will be considered.So,a bi-religional and bi-communal federal basis may be applied to Republic Of Cyprus.What you think about this?
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Postby Piratis » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:35 pm

Why had Papadopulos been elected?


Because most voters voted for him :wink: Each one of the voters might have done so for different reasons. If you didn't pretend that you have a separate state and you voted in the elections as well, then apparently he wouldn't be elected since TCs don't seem to like him.

You want an Unitary state,huh? Greek Cypriot side accepted federal solution in 1977-1979 Summit Agreements.


There is a difference between what we want and what we accept. If you try to do the same too then a solution will become feasible.
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Postby michalis5354 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:06 am

Papadopoulos should tell precisly what he wants in cyprus, than hiding behing laws , rules and procedures. Still now I do not know what he is working for : two separate states , federation confederation , unitary state? what?
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Postby PEACE » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:26 pm

Piratis wrote:There is a difference between what we want and what we accept.


A way to escape what you accepted? :roll: Good try.But i don't care ! I look to what you accepted.Also i asked something more.

:?: Do you accept a bi-zonal,bi-communal Republic Of Cyprus in the frame of 1977-1979 Summit Agreements?



If you didn't pretend that you have a separate state and you voted in the elections as well, then apparently he wouldn't be elected since TCs don't seem to like him.


Piratis,what you are talking about is NONSENSE ! Are you kidding ?
Greek Cypriot Population is 800.000 and Turkish Cypriot population is 200.000.So what's the power of 200.000 in front of 800.000 in elections?
:roll:

michalis5354 wrote:Papadopoulos should tell precisly what he wants in cyprus, than hiding behing laws , rules and procedures.


You can look to Piratis' posts! He is the copy of Papadopulos.Hiding the real thing behind democracy,human rights,EU law etc.But we can understand his sentences that Piratis wants TC community to be minority like Armenians,Maronits, etc. and to have the same rights with minority groups.But this will never happen!
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Postby MicAtCyp » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:50 pm

peace wrote: Do you accept a bi-zonal,bi-communal Republic Of Cyprus in the frame of 1977-1979 Summit Agreements?


I reverse the question to you Peace. DO YOU? Or you accept only the parts that suit you?Notice the 1979 agreement said that Famagusta should be delivered to the UN with the begining of the talks.

Some points to consider:In 1977 it was possible for all refugees to still return to their homes.There were no settlers.We were not in the EU.Point No 3 in 1977 is contradictory to point No 3 of 1979 and contradictory to the EU Aquis today.
Your side never respected any agreement you signed.e.g the third Vienna agreement, which not only you did not respect you even named it "population exchange agreement" to suit you propaganda purposes.

All agreements follow herebelow, for all those who might be interested.

*************************************************************************

High-Level Agreement of 12 February 1977


The following is the text of the agreement between the then President of the Republic, Archbishop Makarios, and the Turkish Cypriot leader, Mr. Denktash, concluded on 12 February 1977 during a meeting under the auspices of the United Nations Secretary-General.
The text of the agreed instructions (guidelines) reads as follows:
1. We are seeking an independent, non-aligned, bi-communal Federal Republic.
2. The territory under the administration of each community should be discussed in the light of economic viability or productivity and land ownership.
3. Questions of principles like freedom of movement, freedom of settlement, the right of property and other specific matters, are open for discussion, taking into consideration the fundamental basis of a bi-communal federal system and certain practical difficulties which may arise for the Turkish Cypriot Community.
4. The powers and functions of the central federal government will be such as to safeguard the unity of the country having regard to the bi-communal character of the State.


The 10-Point Agreement of 19 May 1979


Following is the text of the agreement between the then President of the Republic, Mr. Kyprianou, and the Turkish Cypriot leader, Mr. Denktash, concluded on 19 May during a meeting under the auspices of the U.N. Secretary-General, Dr. Waldheim:
1. It was agreed to resume the intercommunal talks on 15 June 1979.
2. The basis for the talks will be the Makarios-Denktash guidelines of 12 February 1977 and the U.N. resolutions relevant to the Cyprus question.
3. There should be respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms of all citizens of the Republic.
4. The talks will deal with all territorial and constitutional aspects.
5. Priority will be given to reaching agreement of the resettlement of Varosha under U.N. auspices simultaneously with the beginning of the consideration by the interlocutors of the constitutional and territorial aspects of a comprehensive settlement. After agreement on Varosha has been reached it will be implemented without awaiting the outcome of the discussion on other aspects of the Cyprus problem.
6. It was agreed to abstain from any action which might jeopardize the outcome of the talks, and special importance will be given to initial practical measures by both sides to promote goodwill, mutual confidence and the return to normal conditions.
7. The demilitarization of the Republic of Cyprus is envisaged, and matters relating thereto will be discussed.
8. The independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic should be adequately guaranteed against union in whole or in part with any other country and against any form of partition or secession.
9. The intercommunal talks will be carried out in a continuing and sustained manner, avoiding any delay.
10. The intercommunal talks will take place in Nicosia.


The Third Vienna Agreement - August 1975

Communique issued after the third phase of the intercommunal talks in Vienna
The third round of talks on Cyprus was held in Vienna from 31 July to 2 August 1975.
Preliminary discussions were held on the powers and functions of a federal government on the basis of the original Greek Cypriot proposals submitted at the first round, the Turkish Cypriot paper of the 21st of July and the more comprehensive paper presented by Mr. Clerides at this meeting. Further examination of this subject will continue in Nicosia with a view to a final discussion, together with the other aspects relating to the solution of the Cyprus problem, at the next round of talks. Mr. Denktash expressed his views on the comprehensive paper submitted by Mr. Clerides and also on his own proposals for a transitional joint government submitted by him on 18 July. Mr. Clerides referred to his previous position in this regard.
A discussion of the geographical aspects of a future settlement of the Cyprus problem took place. It was agreed that Mr. Clerides and Mr. Denktash would have further private talks on this subject prior to the fourth round of the Cyprus talks with a view to preparing the discussion of this matter which will take place at that time.
In addition the following was agreed:

1. The Turkish Cypriots at present in the South of the Island will be allowed, if they want to do so, to proceed North with their belongings under an organized programme and with the assistance of UNFICYP.
2. Mr. Denktash reaffirmed, and it was agreed, that the Greek Cypriots at present in the North of the Island are free to stay and that they will be given every help to lead a normal life, including facilities for education and for the practice of their religion, as well as medical care by their own doctors and freedom of movement in the North.
3. The Greek Cypriots at present in the North who, at their own request and without having been subjected to any kind of pressure, wish to move to the South will be permitted to do so.
4. UNFICYP will have free and normal access to Greek Cypriot villages and habitations in the North.
5. In connection with the implementation of the above agreement priority will be given to the re-unification of families, which may also involve the transfer of a number of Greek Cypriots, at present in the South, to the North.
The question of displaced persons was also re-examined.
Although both sides again affirmed that they were not knowingly holding undeclared prisoners-of-war or other detainees, it was agreed mutually to extend full facilities for searches in response to information given by either side.
Both sides declared that the Nicosia International Airport, which has been repaired by the United Nations under the agreement reached at the first round, can be used, as a first step, by the United Nations for its needs.
The fourth round of talks will take place, due to the Secretary General’s commitments in regard to the General Assembly, at United Nations headquarters in New York on 8 and 9 September 1975.
2 August, 1975
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Postby insan » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:21 pm

Your side never respected any agreement you signed.e.g the third Vienna agreement, which not only you did not respect you even named it "population exchange agreement" to suit you propaganda purposes.



Sorry re birader ;)
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Postby insan » Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:49 pm

Actually TCs should have named the "population exchange agreement" as GC community named it "ethnic cleansing". This phrase has nothing related with propaganda.

If had Turkey not intervened GCs and TC including their extremists would live in peace in their homes. The Government of RoC had failed to stop Eoka-Bs violations and coup but this didn't interest any of the guarantors because the "legal" president of RoC declared it as an "internal affair". The coupists wouldn't touch just a single TC if they submit to Enosists; otherwise they would end up like the guards of Makarios.

And even the extremists could murder thousands of people in Cyprus it is none of any other countries business to intervene in order to stop the bloodshed because if especially one of them intervened; would destroy the Enosis dream and invade Cyprus. And she did.?


There's no need for Turkey's intervention the security forces of RoC would stop the illegal actions of both sides extremists in perhaps 20, 30 or 50 years time. Just 300 coupists achieved the coup easily... Where were the security forces of RoC at that time while the legal President of RoC had been overthrown? Guess where they were?


Even the UN peace keeping forces failure to keep peace in Cyprus was not an adequate reson for Turkey to intervene. She should wait untill the UN let her intervene. A UN that is not trustworthy for vast majority of GCs today.



Really I'm sorry about you biraber ... :cry:
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