Cyprus-Forum.com

[Atheist]

But the 99.9% of people are no such heroes. They will fight for as long as they have a chance of winning the battle. If they have zero chance then they will surrender rather than die.

Maybe the 99.9% will get to understand things a little clearer that there is no surrender without this being ordered by the CO.

If anyone wants to disobey this chain, perhaps being shot in the back will send a clearer message to the other 99.9%

It's harsh, but there is a lot more at stake here and sometimes these things are necessary and they have been practiced before by many countries, including USA and Australia unofficially as such deaths where chalked as KIA by the enemy.

When a CO makes such a drastic decision, they do not have you in mind, but the rest of the unit and the strategic task at hand.

We are talking about the military here right? Not F-Troops.

If you think they will let you surrender whilst the rest remain at their posts, only for you to betray them, you got another thing coming!

They will tell your family that you fought very hard as well and even reward you with a medal.

If the CO orders the soldiers to essentially suicide when they have zero chance of winning a battle then you can be certain that it is the CO who will be shot on the back and it is his family that will get the medal

But that would rarely happen as the CO wouldn't want to suicide either. The empty big words of heroism end when faced with certain death.

[Paphitis]

And about the CNG "holding for a short time". That is a common argument. "We will hold for a few days until Greece comes to save us". That is making the assumption that Greece could and would do that. They didn't do it in 74 and the fact is that not only the Turkish army is bigger but that Cyprus is far closer to Turkey than Greece which would make things even more difficult for Greece to provide real help even if they wanted to.

I think the CNG has a lot more ambition than just holding the enemy for a few days!

They are more than capable of dealing with the Turkish Forces they will encounter on the island, because that is all they will encounter realistically. Their means of resupply and to reinforce is somewhat very limited.

Nonsense I already gave answers to such stupid arguments.

No you have not explained anything to me!

I am still scratching my head!

[Atheist]

Greece will most definitely NOT help, it will be too busy manning defences stretching from Kastellorizo to Evros. Whatever you may think of them, they have one of the best and action ready armed forces in the world. one that cannot be ignored. The fire power built up over the years is capable of turning great parts of Turkey to rubble. That will be the most urgent business for Turkey and not the CNG. You chose to overlook the strategy that mild mannered Papandrou summarised not so long ago- any conflict will be a very hard clash along the whole line of engagement, and not a local "manageable" crisis.

And all that without moving one single Greek soldier to Cyprus.

Precisely because the conflict cannot be contained and localised is probably the reason Greece is not letting go of the management of the Cyprus National Guard, it does not want a surprise.

Atheist, you are turning strange in your old age.

Nikitas, if Greece was able and willing to go to war with Turkey because of Cyprus then why haven't they done this in 74 or ever since? Greece didn't dare to even increase their territorial waters to 12 miles even though this is their right by international law because they are afraid of the Turkish reaction.

It is apparent that the Greek state does not have such a great belief in their own army, and they probably know its capabilities better than you do.

Oh here we go.

Perhaps Greece should follow your advice also.

I believe that Greece can defend itself. But not attack Turkey or defend Cyprus. They haven't defended Cyprus so far and there is no indication that they are able/willing to do it in the future.

[Paphitis]

But the 99.9% of people are no such heroes. They will fight for as long as they have a chance of winning the battle. If they have zero chance then they will surrender rather than die.

Maybe the 99.9% will get to understand things a little clearer that there is no surrender without this being ordered by the CO.

If anyone wants to disobey this chain, perhaps being shot in the back will send a clearer message to the other 99.9%

It's harsh, but there is a lot more at stake here and sometimes these things are necessary and they have been practiced before by many countries, including USA and Australia unofficially as such deaths where chalked as KIA by the enemy.

When a CO makes such a drastic decision, they do not have you in mind, but the rest of the unit and the strategic task at hand.

We are talking about the military here right? Not F-Troops.

If you think they will let you surrender whilst the rest remain at their posts, only for you to betray them, you got another thing coming!

They will tell your family that you fought very hard as well and even reward you with a medal.

If the CO orders the soldiers to essentially suicide when they have zero chance of winning a battle then you can be certain that it is the CO who will be shot on the back and it is his family that will get the medal

But that would rarely happen as the CO wouldn't want to suicide either. The empty big words of heroism end when faced with certain death.

Stop posting nonsense. No CO is going to order anyone to their death.

As to the chances of a win, I think you should leave that to those in command who are trained to assess the situation as it changes.

And no, soldiers with your kind of attitude, and disrespect were shot all the time by friendly fire and the casualty was always blamed on the enemy.

No unit will shoot their CO, if the CO is always present looking after his men, and leads by example.

[Paphitis]

Greece will most definitely NOT help, it will be too busy manning defences stretching from Kastellorizo to Evros. Whatever you may think of them, they have one of the best and action ready armed forces in the world. one that cannot be ignored. The fire power built up over the years is capable of turning great parts of Turkey to rubble. That will be the most urgent business for Turkey and not the CNG. You chose to overlook the strategy that mild mannered Papandrou summarised not so long ago- any conflict will be a very hard clash along the whole line of engagement, and not a local "manageable" crisis.

And all that without moving one single Greek soldier to Cyprus.

Precisely because the conflict cannot be contained and localised is probably the reason Greece is not letting go of the management of the Cyprus National Guard, it does not want a surprise.

Atheist, you are turning strange in your old age.

Nikitas, if Greece was able and willing to go to war with Turkey because of Cyprus then why haven't they done this in 74 or ever since? Greece didn't dare to even increase their territorial waters to 12 miles even though this is their right by international law because they are afraid of the Turkish reaction.

It is apparent that the Greek state does not have such a great belief in their own army, and they probably know its capabilities better than you do.

Oh here we go.

Perhaps Greece should follow your advice also.

I believe that Greece can defend itself. But not attack Turkey or defend Cyprus. They haven't defended Cyprus so far and there is no indication that they are able/willing to do it in the future.

Are you really sure about that?

I think Greece can attack Turkey quite easily! You mean they are unlikely to invade Turkey!

Even if Greece was to mobilise its troops from Evros to Kastelorizo, it would be a huge help to the CNG.

[Paphitis]

Battle of Long Tan

there were 108 soldiers on the one side and 2500 on the other.

Who won?

Should the 108 have surrendered?

[Atheist]

And about the CNG "holding for a short time". That is a common argument. "We will hold for a few days until Greece comes to save us". That is making the assumption that Greece could and would do that. They didn't do it in 74 and the fact is that not only the Turkish army is bigger but that Cyprus is far closer to Turkey than Greece which would make things even more difficult for Greece to provide real help even if they wanted to.

I think the CNG has a lot more ambition than just holding the enemy for a few days!

They are more than capable of dealing with the Turkish Forces they will encounter on the island, because that is all they will encounter realistically. Their means of resupply and to reinforce is somewhat very limited.

Nonsense I already gave answers to such stupid arguments.

I challenge you to explain to us MILITARILY how Turkey will go about defeating 120,000 men and all their military hardware in a “few days”.

Don't just throw big words around... explain it in detail.

In the exact same way that a country which is 100 times bigger than another would do it.

1974 in Cyprus is an example. The Georgia-Russia war more recently is another.

Do you actually assume that for Turkey to win a war they need to kill each and every Cypriot soldier holding a G3? They would destroy our mini military infrastructure and kill a few 1000s of us with missile attacks and air raids, then threaten that they will bomb to the ground our cities killing our wives and children, and we would surrender. That is how it works, unless you are the Taliban and you don't care about your wife or children and you are content living in a cave for the rest of your short life.

[Paphitis]

And about the CNG "holding for a short time". That is a common argument. "We will hold for a few days until Greece comes to save us". That is making the assumption that Greece could and would do that. They didn't do it in 74 and the fact is that not only the Turkish army is bigger but that Cyprus is far closer to Turkey than Greece which would make things even more difficult for Greece to provide real help even if they wanted to.

I think the CNG has a lot more ambition than just holding the enemy for a few days!

They are more than capable of dealing with the Turkish Forces they will encounter on the island, because that is all they will encounter realistically. Their means of resupply and to reinforce is somewhat very limited.

Nonsense I already gave answers to such stupid arguments.

I challenge you to explain to us MILITARILY how Turkey will go about defeating 120,000 men and all their military hardware in a “few days”.

Don't just throw big words around... explain it in detail.

In the exact same way that a country which is 100 times bigger than another would do it.

1974 in Cyprus is an example. The Georgia-Russia war more recently is another.

Do you actually assume that for Turkey to win a war they need to kill each and every Cypriot soldier holding a G3? They would destroy our mini military infrastructure and kill a few 1000s of us with missile attacks and air raids, then threaten that they will bomb to the ground our cities killing our wives and children, and we would surrender. That is how it works, unless you are the Taliban and you don't care about your wife or children and you are content living in a cave for the rest of your short life.

You're explanations are far too simplistic I am afraid.

Watch this:

Battle of Long Tan between 108 Australian Soldiers and 2500 Viet Cong with Russian supplied weapons and training.

If we were to take your logic, these Australians would have surrendered and spent the rest of their days in a caged pit with a rice ball each day in between torture. I think it comes down to what kind of person you are. And you have already admitted how you think the CNG is a waste of time because you could be making money.

[Atheist]

But the 99.9% of people are no such heroes. They will fight for as long as they have a chance of winning the battle. If they have zero chance then they will surrender rather than die.

Maybe the 99.9% will get to understand things a little clearer that there is no surrender without this being ordered by the CO.

If anyone wants to disobey this chain, perhaps being shot in the back will send a clearer message to the other 99.9%

It's harsh, but there is a lot more at stake here and sometimes these things are necessary and they have been practiced before by many countries, including USA and Australia unofficially as such deaths where chalked as KIA by the enemy.

When a CO makes such a drastic decision, they do not have you in mind, but the rest of the unit and the strategic task at hand.

We are talking about the military here right? Not F-Troops.

If you think they will let you surrender whilst the rest remain at their posts, only for you to betray them, you got another thing coming!

They will tell your family that you fought very hard as well and even reward you with a medal.

If the CO orders the soldiers to essentially suicide when they have zero chance of winning a battle then you can be certain that it is the CO who will be shot on the back and it is his family that will get the medal

But that would rarely happen as the CO wouldn't want to suicide either. The empty big words of heroism end when faced with certain death.

Stop posting nonsense. No CO is going to order anyone to their death.

As to the chances of a win, I think you should leave that to those in command who are trained to assess the situation as it changes.

And no, soldiers with your kind of attitude, and disrespect were shot all the time by friendly fire and the casualty was always blamed on the enemy.

No unit will shoot their CO, if the CO is always present looking after his men, and leads by example.

Thanks for the warning. Problem for them is that they don't know what my attitude is since they don't know who I am

It is a big mistake for them to assume that all soldiers have an attitude of submission and will blindly follow their orders.

As far as I am concerned no moronic "monimos" is in better position to judge the situation. So if any monimos tries something stupid that will lead to certain death then I will make sure that his family will receive that medal

[Get Real!]

I challenge you to explain to us MILITARILY how Turkey will go about defeating 120,000 men and all their military hardware in a “few days”.

Don't just throw big words around... explain it in detail.

In the exact same way that a country which is 100 times bigger than another would do it.

1974 in Cyprus is an example. The Georgia-Russia war more recently is another.

Do you actually assume that for Turkey to win a war they need to kill each and every Cypriot soldier holding a G3? They would destroy our mini military infrastructure and kill a few 1000s of us with missile attacks and air raids, then threaten that they will bomb to the ground our cities killing our wives and children, and we would surrender. That is how it works, unless you are the Taliban and you don't care about your wife or children and you are content living in a cave for the rest of your short life.

So are you implying that Turkey will land 100x more troops on Cyprus to confront us… that’s 12,000,000 soldiers!

And what are air defenses for?

You're a fucking idiot!