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Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:35 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:Paphitis,

Thank you for your intelligent and informed comments.

I agree that the situation has become a whole lot more dangerous, especially for Syria and the long-suffering Syrian people who are now likely to see even more of their country reduced to rubble and more of their people turned into refugees, but also for the world as a whole.

I would not put my money on any Western ground forces going in. One common denominator shared by Russia and the US, and other Western countries likely to participate in any kind of ground operation, is that public opinion has no taste whatsoever for sending in troops, in Russia because of the memory of Afghanistan, and in the West because of memories of both Afghanistan and Iraq. I think the present US strategy is right and even if a large-scale intervention could achieve whatever it is that the American ruling elite wants, in the long term it will just create the next problem. Of course, the Russians, in intervening in support of the Assad regime, are essentially working alongside the regime's forces, which includes boots on the ground. There was talk on this morning's BBC Today radio news programme about Iranian ground troops coming in to support Assad. I don't know if this is just a rumour or speculation, but this would be a further game changer.

Sadly, I think Assad's strategy is working. Public opinion now looks at groups like Daesh and think that Assad is the better of the two evils, and presented with this dichotomy, this is of course the correct choice. Of course it is a false dichotomy, because there are other options. There is little memory of the dignified, peaceful, secular protest movement that broke out at the beginning of 2011 and most people in the world now associate opposition to Assad with radical Islamism, just as Assad has always wanted them to. I think it is quite possible, against this backdrop, that with Russian and perhaps Iranian support the Assad regime will be able to retake control over Syria. I don't think this will lead to a permanent solution, either, though.


I agree with what you say Tim and sending troops might be very unpopular back home.

But I feel that Obama is going to make a couple of moves himself now as he has little choice. What that is I am not really sure but the possibilities may range from considering Ground Deployments to actually convincing Russia that Assad must go and replaced with another leader and body which will include the Sunnis in a power sharing arrangement whilst conceding that Syria is to remain a Russian ally so that Russia can keep their base in Tartus - which is what this is really all about when it comes to the crunch.

Either that, or Russia just entered into another Afghanistan which it is going to lose after a long decade of war.

Everyone is going to have to get realistic. Do the powers want peace (Russia included) or years of bloodshed?
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:36 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Paphitis,

Thank you for your intelligent and informed comments.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You two are like Laurel & Hardy...


Seven laughing emoticons ... that proves nothing.

Thank you for your unintelligent and uninformed comment, all the same.
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:38 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Paphitis,

Thank you for your intelligent and informed comments.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You two are like Laurel & Hardy...


Seven laughing emoticons ... that proves nothing.

Thank you for your unintelligent and uninformed comment, all the same.



:)
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:42 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Paphitis,

Thank you for your intelligent and informed comments.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You two are like Laurel & Hardy...


How do you feel about betraying Cyprus? For someone so supporting of the CNG, you have now become a traitor.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/11/12/who ... mic-state/

Cyprus is considered by the USA as a Coalition Partner because of pledges it made and because it did not object to the use of Akritiri - not that anyone would have listened if Cyprus did object.

Now off you go to Lidles to buy all the cat food tins and a nice shovel from the hardware store and start digging your bunker 30FT under your house.

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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:56 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:A bit of useful reading as to how Assad released large numbers of dangerous Islamists from prison in 2011, so as to engineer a transformation of the democratic, secular revolutionary movement into an Islamist terrorist one, a move that indirectly gave birth to Daesh:

Assad regime set free extremists from prison to fire up trouble during peaceful uprising
http://www.thenational.ae/world/syria/a ... sing#page1


Slowly but surely Tim the truth will come out.

As complicated as all this is, sometimes the jigsaw puzzle comes together. DAESH have been an unwilling ally to Assad. DAESH are so hard line against all other Sunni groups in their quest for the Caliphate, they will attack anyone including all other groups linked to Al Qaeda, FSA and Jaish al-Fatah.

They serve their purpose and we knew this all along which is why we wanted to destroy them so as to give the FSA and Jaish al-Fatah a fighting chance against Assad.

DAESH are not who we support. It is who Assad and Russia are supporting. Our boys are FSA and Jaish al-Fatah. The Kurds are our boys and girls too!

You might think I am a little crazy but this war is beyond crazy and it just got even crazier now.


I am coming to the conclusion that Daesh is not what it appears to be. This movement is happy to portray itself to the disaffected lumpen proletariat of the Islamic ghettos of the world as a movement engaged in radical jihad and is happy to recruit an endless stream of zealots eager to take up arms and engage in jihad and put down their lives for the noble cause, with the added promise of booty and religiously sanctioned (supposedly) sex with captive women for those inspired by less ideological motives. It is happy to send these young men out as cannon fodder, and the reason that the number of Daesh fighters remains constant despite the large number of fatalities is that new recruits keep arriving to replace those who die, to serve whatever its purpose is. This endless supply of useful idiots ready to go out and die wherever Daesh sends must seem like manna from heaven for whoever is really behind the movement. I am not sure what it is all about, but I become ever more convinced that the Ba'ath party is the real puppet master. There is evidence that the Ba'athist Assad was instrumental in creating Daesh in the first place, and his forces rarely clash with them. A number of interviews have been conducted with leading Daesh people who have become disillusioned and defected, and they all speak of the upper echelons of the movement being filled with former Ba'athists from the Iraqi regime. On the other hand, though, numbering among the several resistance movements to Daesh that have sprung up and appear to be causing problems for Deash in Mosul is a group of about 150 Ba'athist former officers in the Iraqi army. As I have said before, no simplistic conspiracy theory is capable of accounting for everything that goes on.


Indeed Tim. Very wise assessment and you're right that there are many anomalies here which do not quite add up to in depth scrutiny. The powers themselves are just as confused and the USA doesn't even know which way to jump at the moment.

I do believe that the Coalition's strategy is correct and that sending troops would have been a mistake but on the other hand this could be the showdown between Russia and USA. And you have some idiots on this forum cheering that on.

I have no idea what they think will be achieved.

According to coalition sources (I am not 100% sure if it is true), Russia has not as yet targeted DAESH at all despite its claims. It has targeted FSA and Jaesh al-Fatah.

So that Baathist 'Conspiracy' theory that Assad actually physically assisted with the creation of DAESH and was not just responsible for creating the conditions for it to thrive might not be so far fetched.
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Get Real! » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:04 pm

Related news...

Syria Airstrikes Targeting ISIS and Other Terror Groups
http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/01/russ ... or-groups/

Iraq Would Welcome Russian Airstrikes
http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/01/pm-i ... irstrikes/

Iran says it backs Russian strikes in Syria
http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-19930 ... s-in-Syria

Why is Washington Against Russia Bombing ISIS and Al-Qaeda?
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/pe ... -al-qaeda/

War Party Hates Putin – Loves al-Qaeda
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2015 ... -al-qaeda/
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:06 pm

The talk of Iranian ground troops moving in may not just be rumour:

Meanwhile, hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria to join a major ground offensive in support of president Bashar al-Assad's government, according to sources in Lebanon ...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/i ... ia/6821822
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Tim Drayton » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:10 pm

Paphitis wrote:
According to coalition sources (I am not 100% sure if it is true), Russia has not as yet targeted DAESH at all despite its claims.


My assertion is that the Russians will not attack Daesh - in fact, I expected the first strike to be a symbolic one against Daesh for propaganda purposes, but they didn't even do that. If I am proved wrong, I will accept that my hypothesis is also wrong and needs to be revised.
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:13 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:The talk of Iranian ground troops moving in may not just be rumour:

Meanwhile, hundreds of Iranian troops have arrived in Syria to join a major ground offensive in support of president Bashar al-Assad's government, according to sources in Lebanon ...


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-02/i ... ia/6821822


Oh yes, in comes Iran!

And what of the 13 million Sunnis now, Allah only knows.

This is going to get very rough and very bloody for Iran, Syria and Russia. Lucky the coalition didn't send Ground Troops. now the entire Arab World is going to be against them and the Gulf States are going to be the other factor and they are going to be sending Billions worth in arms - Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, UAE, Bahrain etc

Good morning Vietnam!



The biggest winner will be Israel.
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Re: Russia conducts first air strike in Syria

Postby Paphitis » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:19 pm

Get Real! wrote:Related news...

Iraq Would Welcome Russian Airstrikes
http://news.antiwar.com/2015/10/01/pm-i ... irstrikes/



The coalition would also welcome Russian airstrikes in Iraq against DAESH but that might not be Russia's aim.

Let us know when the Russians drop their first bomb on DAESH because so far not even one has fallen within DAESH controlled areas.

I might need to resurrect my "Russia created DAESH thread" which I made as a joke. It might no longer be a joke but a serious thread in light of recent developments.
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