Cyprus-Forum.com

[Jerry]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

[erolz66]

I don't need to post hundreds of pages of documents if the relevant, contextual, section is a succinct point that follows on from what someone said. Should I post the bit to do with Pakistan or some other unrelated matter?

You partially quoted in order to try and present the suggestion of one individual as the policy of 'The British'. It was a blatant attempt to distort the reality to suit your propaganda needs. It is what you always do.

As I said, they are Official documents, from Cyprus-administers (Embassy etc), some as briefed policy (i.e. policy reported to Ministers) and now available at a government archive.

No you said the section you quoted was what 'the British' accepted and recognised and made out that it was British policy. This is simply not true and you could only make it seem to be true by manipulating by omission the quote.

If you don't like what they report, you can keep saying they are irrelevant, or that I was selective, as that is what pathetically, selectively suits you. But the English is clear, concise and meaningful - your blustering splutterings and those of your hic-obsessed stooges are clownish and demonstrate only your attempts to cling to some false narrative that allows you to live guilt-free and in a state of comfortable hypocrisy that tries to justify Turkey's illegal occupation.

I do not like the way you take something that was clearly a suggestion of a single individual quoted in a official document being presented as the official policy of 'the British'. You blatantly sought by your partial quoted of the title and purpose of the document and what was actually said in that document and by whom to create a false impression. This is what I do not like and it is what you always do.

To me they are relevant - facts and evidence - that capture that time in our history when Turk-TCs were the effective tools for Turkey to try and invade and grab Cyprus and then to eventually succeed.

It either was the official policy of the British government in 1964 that financial and other aid should be given to TC that wished to leave Cyprus or it was not. The FACT is it was not official policy just as it is a fact that you tried to distort what the document was, what was said in it and by whom to try and create a false impression that it was British policy. This what you do. It is what you have always done.

[erolz66]

That is because we are different. We are the native population, who are Greek and Christian, and the Turks are a foreign to us culture / religion / language which was imposed on our island against our will. Should we blame ourselves for having the bad luck of being invaded by the Turks? I am not against finding as many commonalities as possible, but your position is wrong as a matter of principle. If tomorrow we are invaded by Arab Islamist fundamentalists and they manage to hold on to Cyprus for a couple of centuries creating an Arab minority in Cyprus, would that mean that when we manage to gain our freedom that we would have to find a commonality between Sharia law and Islamic religious fundamentalism, and our aspiration for a European democratic Cyprus? Of course no. We will respect your human rights, you can have some minority rights like in other democratic countries, if there are some commonalities GREAT, but beyond that we are not obligated to sacrifice our principles and aspirations to satisfy the demands of every minority.

Sotos you can chose to define what it means to be Cypriot in a way that is greater than one's ethnic background and regardless of it or you can chose to define what it means to be Cypriot based purely on those ethic differences and say to be Cypriot means to be Greek and Christian. I believe which we (as Cypriots) choose fundamentally impacted how we ended up in the situation we are in today and fundamental impacts what our chances are of building a better future Cyprus for all Cypriots. The choice is yours.

[Sotos]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

[Paphitis]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

You can't be serious!

Sotos, you're an idiot! Of course they are Native. Anyone born in America or Australia no nothing else.

And in any case, you're not native to Cyprus then! Only Cypriots like GR are native, but you are a Greek Colonialist!

[Jerry]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

It's implied in your "they are not native". Perhaps you could tell us when a community becomes native, after all there were people living in Cyprus before the Greeks arrived, so are the descendants of Greeks native? What's the cut-off point, 500, 1000 or 2000 years or is it Sotos's arbitrary figure that sees only Greeks as natives ? Of course we should respect each others human rights but that has nothing to do with being native - or are you suggesting that "natives" have more human rights than "invaders"?

[GreekIslandGirl]

You partially quoted in order to try and present the suggestion of one individual as the policy of 'The British'.

No. I quoted relevant sections from British Government documents (now archived).

As always, you create a straw man scenario and go off arguing to absurdity when the facts/document extracts are there for others to see.

No one, apart from the illegal Turkish occupation forces, needs your style of cover-up.

[erolz66]

No. I quoted relevant sections from British Government documents (now archived).

As always, you create a straw man scenario and go off arguing to absurdity when the facts/document extracts are there for others to see.

No one, apart from the illegal Turkish occupation forces, needs your style of cover-up.

You said verbatim

Finally, the British admitted, the root to a unitary state was to remove 'those Turkish Cypriots'!

The 'British' did NOT 'admit' this at all. A single British diplomat suggested this. You tried to make out that what a single British diplomat suggested was in fact British policy and you tried to do this with blatant distortion through omission of the title of the document, what the purpose of the document was, who wrote it and why and who actually made the suggested that you did quote. This is what you always do just as you always then spend pages and pages denying you do it when challenged for doing it, just as you are doing now.

[Sotos]

That is because we are different. We are the native population, who are Greek and Christian, and the Turks are a foreign to us culture / religion / language which was imposed on our island against our will. Should we blame ourselves for having the bad luck of being invaded by the Turks? I am not against finding as many commonalities as possible, but your position is wrong as a matter of principle. If tomorrow we are invaded by Arab Islamist fundamentalists and they manage to hold on to Cyprus for a couple of centuries creating an Arab minority in Cyprus, would that mean that when we manage to gain our freedom that we would have to find a commonality between Sharia law and Islamic religious fundamentalism, and our aspiration for a European democratic Cyprus? Of course no. We will respect your human rights, you can have some minority rights like in other democratic countries, if there are some commonalities GREAT, but beyond that we are not obligated to sacrifice our principles and aspirations to satisfy the demands of every minority.

Sotos you can chose to define what it means to be Cypriot in a way that is greater than one's ethnic background and regardless of it or you can chose to define what it means to be Cypriot based purely on those ethic differences and say to be Cypriot means to be Greek and Christian. I believe which we (as Cypriots) choose fundamentally impacted how we ended up in the situation we are in today and fundamental impacts what our chances are of building a better future Cyprus for all Cypriots. The choice is yours.

Unfortunately the choice was never ours since the choices were always made by the foreigners who had the power to impose what they wanted on us against our will. Are the children, grandchildren etc of the Settlers that were brought to Cyprus after 1974 "Cypriots"? If not now will they be Cypriots in a couple of centuries? And regardless of how you choose to label them, what commonality do the native Cypriots have with them which is greater than the commonality the native Cypriot people have with say the Lebanese, Egyptians or the Turks in Turkey? I repeat that I am all for finding commonalities with TCs, but I can't accept your argument as a principle because if we do then we will have to do the same with the Turkish Settlers who came to Cyprus since 74, and with whatever other Settlers future invaders of Cyprus bring to our island. The native majority can't give up their principles and their aspirations to satisfy the demands of every possible ethnic group in Cyprus.

[GreekIslandGirl]

You said verbatim

Finally, the British admitted, the root to a unitary state was to remove 'those Turkish Cypriots'!

The 'British' did NOT 'admit' this at all.

Whether you like it or not, it is based on:

British Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.