Cyprus-Forum.com

[GreekIslandGirl]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now?

Forget this '400' year nonsense.

The Turks living in Cyprus were not considered 'native' until the 1930s or so. Most (30,000 ?) heeded Ataturk (and others) and returned to Turkey in the 1920s. At most, the starting point for adopting a 'native status' and leaving behind 'Ottoman Ruler status' was from the 1930s or so ..... but ..........there are other factors to being 'native', of course.

It's similar to exPat Brits not identifying with being 'native' just because their Empire ruled Cyprus for nearly 100 years more recently.

[erolz66]

You said verbatim

Finally, the British admitted, the root to a unitary state was to remove 'those Turkish Cypriots'!

The 'British' did NOT 'admit' this at all.

Whether you like it or not, it is based on:

British Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.

If it was reported in a briefing document to British Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964 that I had suggested that GiG was a 'nasty piece of work' it would not mean that the 'British' had admitted that GiG was a 'nasty piece of work' and any attempt to make out that this is what 'the British' had admitted and was their policy would just be a gross distortion of fact.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Moan moan moan ...

British Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.

Your opinions and my opinions come outside such official sources!

Can't say fairer than that.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Anyway ....... lovely discussion .... but must go and decorate now ....

[cypriotnado]

Anyway ....... lovely discussion .... but must go and decorate now ....

She means back to the bottle.........hic

[Sotos]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

It's implied in your "they are not native". Perhaps you could tell us when a community becomes native, after all there were people living in Cyprus before the Greeks arrived, so are the descendants of Greeks native? What's the cut-off point, 500, 1000 or 2000 years or is it Sotos's arbitrary figure that sees only Greeks as natives ? Of course we should respect each others human rights but that has nothing to do with being native - or are you suggesting that "natives" have more human rights than "invaders"?

It is NOT implied that people who are not native should leave. That is like saying that almost all Americans should leave from the USA because they are not Native Americans or that all Whites should leave from South Africa. I will ask you the same question as I asked Erolz: Are the children, grandchildren etc of the Settlers "Cypriots"? In your case I will go a step further: Are they NATIVE Cypriots? I think the answer is clearly that they are NOT native Cypriots, so there is a cut-off point somewhere, otherwise everybody born in Cyprus would be "native Cypriot". The Turks came to Cyprus at about the same time that the English, Spanish, French etc were colonizing America, Africa, Australia, Asia etc... and those Europeans are clearly not considered native in those parts of the world. The native people could certainly have some additional rights in the cases that those people are now minorities... but in our case that we are the majority we don't need any additional rights other than the standard Human and Majority Rights.

[erolz66]

Moan moan moan ...

British Defence and Overseas Policy May 1964

5. ... efforts should be concentrated on easing the path to the unitary state, e.g. by providing U.N. safeguards for the minority and by giving financial and other assistance for the resettling of those Turkish Cypriots to whom Cyprus may no longer appear a tolerable home.

Your opinions and my opinions come outside such official sources!

Can't say fairer than that.

The opinion of the British diplomat who made the suggestion you quoted and that was reported in the document given to the British Defence and Overseas Policy committee is also OUTSIDE of the British Defence and Overseas Policy committee. This person in the role he was in at that time was NOT a member of this policy committee. His suggestion was not a suggestion OF this committee and in no way did it represent British policy at the time. Only by gross distortion of the truth could one try and make out that this suggestion was British policy - which is exactly what you have tried to do and what you always do.

[Paphitis]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

It's implied in your "they are not native". Perhaps you could tell us when a community becomes native, after all there were people living in Cyprus before the Greeks arrived, so are the descendants of Greeks native? What's the cut-off point, 500, 1000 or 2000 years or is it Sotos's arbitrary figure that sees only Greeks as natives ? Of course we should respect each others human rights but that has nothing to do with being native - or are you suggesting that "natives" have more human rights than "invaders"?

It is NOT implied that people who are not native should leave. That is like saying that almost all Americans should leave from the USA because they are not Native Americans or that all Whites should leave from South Africa. I will ask you the same question as I asked Erolz: Are the children, grandchildren etc of the Settlers "Cypriots"? In your case I will go a step further: Are they NATIVE Cypriots? I think the answer is clearly that they are NOT native Cypriots, so there is a cut-off point somewhere, otherwise everybody born in Cyprus would be "native Cypriot". The Turks came to Cyprus at about the same time that the English, Spanish, French etc were colonizing America, Africa, Australia, Asia etc... and those Europeans are clearly not considered native in those parts of the world. The native people could certainly have some additional rights in the cases that those people are now minorities... but in our case that we are the majority we don't need any additional rights other than the standard Human and Majority Rights.

Of course people born in America or Australia are native. They are American or Australian citizens. There are no higher category than that. You're either a citizen of your not.

And to tell them they are not American or Australian will probably earn you a black eye!

[erolz66]

It is NOT implied that people who are not native should leave. That is like saying that almost all Americans should leave from the USA because they are not Native Americans or that all Whites should leave from South Africa. I will ask you the same question as I asked Erolz: Are the children, grandchildren etc of the Settlers "Cypriots"? In your case I will go a step further: Are they NATIVE Cypriots? I think the answer is clearly that they are NOT native Cypriots, so there is a cut-off point somewhere, otherwise everybody born in Cyprus would be "native Cypriot". The Turks came to Cyprus at about the same time that the English, Spanish, French etc were colonizing America, Africa, Australia, Asia etc... and those Europeans are clearly not considered native in those parts of the world. The native people could certainly have some additional rights in the cases that those people are now minorities... but in our case that we are the majority we don't need any additional rights other than the standard Human and Majority Rights.

The whole issue of 'native' or not is simply irrelevant. GC did not want a post colonial future for Cyprus that was was different from and an anathema to TC because they were 'native'. They wanted such because they chose to place being Greek ahead of being Cypriot based on an ideology that said to be Cypriot means to be Greek. TC did not want a post colonial future for Cyprus that was different from and anathema to GC because they were 'not native'. They wanted such because they chose to place being 'not Greek' (Turkish or TC) ahead of being Cypriot.

Today we can choose to define what it means to be Cypriot as something greater than and independent from our differences as GC and TC or we can continue to define what it means to be Cypriot by those differences. The choice is ours. I know which of those approaches I believe holds the best chance of us being able to build a better Cyprus for all Cypriots than the one we have today.

[Sotos]

Sotos, how can you say that people who have lived on Cyprus for 400 years are not native now? Where should they go, bearing in mind that many of them may be the descendants of christian converts centuries ago. By your curious logic the Europeans in USA, Australia and other former colonies should "go home", where should they go if they are of mixed race, they did not choose their parents?

I agree those that arrived after 1974 should not be here.

PS, it's "break" not "brake"

Where did I say that they should go anywhere? Are the Europeans in USA, Australia, Africa etc native to those places? They have also been to those places for several centuries but that is not enough to make them native. I didn't say that the TCs should go anywhere ... I said that they should respect our Human and Majority Rights like we should respect their Human and Minority Rights.

It's implied in your "they are not native". Perhaps you could tell us when a community becomes native, after all there were people living in Cyprus before the Greeks arrived, so are the descendants of Greeks native? What's the cut-off point, 500, 1000 or 2000 years or is it Sotos's arbitrary figure that sees only Greeks as natives ? Of course we should respect each others human rights but that has nothing to do with being native - or are you suggesting that "natives" have more human rights than "invaders"?

It is NOT implied that people who are not native should leave. That is like saying that almost all Americans should leave from the USA because they are not Native Americans or that all Whites should leave from South Africa. I will ask you the same question as I asked Erolz: Are the children, grandchildren etc of the Settlers "Cypriots"? In your case I will go a step further: Are they NATIVE Cypriots? I think the answer is clearly that they are NOT native Cypriots, so there is a cut-off point somewhere, otherwise everybody born in Cyprus would be "native Cypriot". The Turks came to Cyprus at about the same time that the English, Spanish, French etc were colonizing America, Africa, Australia, Asia etc... and those Europeans are clearly not considered native in those parts of the world. The native people could certainly have some additional rights in the cases that those people are now minorities... but in our case that we are the majority we don't need any additional rights other than the standard Human and Majority Rights.

Of course people born in America or Australia are native. They are American or Australian citizens. There are no higher category than that. You're either a citizen of your not.

And to tell them they are not American or Australian will probably earn you a black eye!

If everybody was a native then the word "native" would have no meaning. Citizenship is a totally different thing. Even somebody not born in a country and not having any ancestors from that country can be a citizen of that country. You can even buy some citizenships.