Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Make your mind up mate, you just wrote : " ISIL can't be defeated. It's IMPOSSIBLE"

[Schnauzer]

Make your mind up mate, you just wrote : " ISIL can't be defeated. It's IMPOSSIBLE"

In short words, the defeat of IS will never be achieved by force of arms.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

DEEP State exists in most large countries like USA, Britain, Australia etc etc

It is actually an Oligarchy and it has a ‘Management’!

They are the faceless men and women or the power-brokers within the political parties. they are the faceless men and women of the Security Agencies, and Military Elites and other major Government departments and the Judiciary.

It has nothing to do with political parties, as you have said before. It transcends politics.

None, other than the ones within the political movements, have anything to do with globalization, Corporations, banks or capitalism. Two seperate issues.

It IS major global corporations and the financial system that is the very life blood of the Deep State. That is what they are protecting .... not political doctrines, they are just a sop to make people feel they have a democracy.

The security Agencies and Military establishments (Pentagon) have however far greater responsibilities than the POTUS and are apolitical. They are the real Guardians of the State.

They are driven by and are responsible to the Deep State Oligarchs, that will change and will then become '.... the real Guardians of the State' at he moment they are The Guardiens of the Deep Sate.

They don't want the limelight, or credit for anything they do. They want to remain apolitical and obscure from the public eye

.
Not a bit like ISIS then? They DO like a bit of publicity?

POTUS comes and go, but the DEEP STATE will ALWAYS remain. And if they have to, they will dispense with the POTUS and have the fall guy or they will use the media to destroy him.

With a bit of luck Trump will flush them out. Yes they will use the media but of course that is no longer regarded as a credible source for information, most people now use the independent news sites for more accurate information. The turning point will come when the enforcers for the Deep State, the police, the National Guard and maybe even the military turn on their Deep State handlers. That will be the end of the Deep State Oligarchy.

THEY WILL DO THAT IN A HEARTBEAT IF THEY BELIEVE THE POTUS HAS UNDERMINED US INTERESTS.

They may try that in panic as their ivory towers crumble, nothing more dangerous than a wild animal that is trapped, especially if it is injured. POTUS will not deliberately undermine US interests, I would suggest that he is about to undermine the interests of the Deep State Oligarchy’ and that is at odds with US interests.

And the danger signs are already there. It's never personal or political, just about INTERESTS and if TRUMP undermines those interests, then he's gone one way or another.

See above ........

And it's easily done. first of all, they just need to get the GOP to shut the Government down but not voting for the next tranche of Federal Funding. Game over and Bye bye Trumpey.

POTUS can call in the National Guard and declare martial law and ‘rule’ by direct decree as he seems to be doing already. The thing in his favour is that he has the support of a lot of Americans ......... then what will The Elite do? They cannot fight the people if their enforcers switch sides, which they will do.

A few things that will take Trump down are as follows:

1) normalization of relations with Russia - everyone is against this, including virtually all allies

Done .... after yesterdays phone call with Putin ..... obvious that they are going to get on well together. They are movers not political/diplomatic wafflers!

2) any isolationism from NATO or the Asia Pacific and South China Sea.

NATO IS obsolete and is a threat to world peace as you with your comments and prophecies show only too well.

3) any military action which will assist Assad and Hezbollah,

To late ..... Russia and the US are to cooperate to destroy ISIS, this will take the heat of Assad and his coalition. He will only have to fight on one front ..... now shifted to Idlib. Arise .... the ‘White Helmets’ and the SOHR!

4) and anything STUPID that he may do which will take the globe closer to a Nuclear Holocaust.

So mending bridges with Russia will help that process and heal the distrust between two nuclear states. The biggest threat is Israel and their nuclear arsenal, which unfortunately Trump seems to support?

Free Trade Deals, immigration, abortion, and other such matters are pretty much irrelevant. The Deep state will allow the POTUS to implement their political agendas.

They won’t allow anything if these deals threaten their Global Empires! Deep State is not political .... it is above politics, it is called self interests!

Immigration and banning persons from 7 countries is a matter of the Federal Courts to work out whether it is Constitutional or not. And it appears, it might not be. First stuff up by Trump.

Yes as he has now extended it to Airline crews. That is you screwed when they find out you are an avid reader and frequent visitor to Jihadi web sites! You could always plead insanity .... that would be believable!

Next stuff up will be when women start doing back yard abortions and risk their lives in the process resulting in loss of life.

I think that move was a mistake he could well regret.

Another stuff up would be introducing tariffs on Mexican imports driving the prices up for cheap white goods, other products and services from Mexico worth more than 500 Billion.

Of course, as you said previously .... it cuts both ways. Mind you, Mexico could offer to rent China/Russia military bases in Mexico, not only to make up the lost income from the US but so that they could protect their National security ..... sort of emulating the US on the Russian, Iranian and Chinese borders. That would liven things up!

[Robin Hood]

Make your mind up mate, you just wrote : " ISIL can't be defeated. It's IMPOSSIBLE"

That was an hour and a half ago ........ things change rapidly at Paphitis contact level! Or he just forgot what he said previously ......... he does change his mind rather frequently?

[Paphitis]

Make your mind up mate, you just wrote : " ISIL can't be defeated. It's IMPOSSIBLE"

In short words, the defeat of IS will never be achieved by force of arms.

You need a combination of the 2 but yes you are correct. You can pound them all you like but that doesn't address the problem or defeat terrorism or DAESH.

getting rid of them from Iraq is one thing, but calling it the destruction or comprehensive defeat of ISIL is quite something else.

[Tim Drayton]

Yes and no. In terms of being an entity that touts itself as being in possession of territory, it can be and is being defeated. But, you are right to say that it cannot be fully defeated as a terrorist organisation, especially when lone wolf terrorists simply claim to have acted on its behalf.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

One more thing, Trump might want to explain how he intends on defeating ISIL.

He has instructed his team to come up with a plan within 30 days! You mean to tell us, he didn’t ring you for advice?

This is a misleading statement/promise. ISIL can't be defeated. It's IMPOSSIBLE. ISIL exist in more than 10 countries, including Indonesia now, the world's most populous Muslim country of 220 million people.

Hooray ....... I just knew my message would get through to you eventually.

What is the intention? Wage war in 10 countries now? that's unrealistic!

We are relying on YOUR intelligence people to keep us safe!

Secondly, ISIL can only be defeated by looking at the funding and recruitment and tackling that and addressing the issues of radicalization.

That will be impossible ...... but radicalization? ......... As I said before ‘Hearts and minds!’

People like Pootin and Assad only help ISIL and increase their means to fund themselves and recruit thousands more Jihadi fighters from all over the world. Possibly Trump too if he joins that camp and there will be repercussions within the alliance if that happens and I think trump is starting to realize it too.

YOU the US, created ISIS and have been funding and supplying them weapons via allies in Saudi for years, also supplying linked terrorist groups in Syria ........ and NOW you blame Assad and Putin?

How many times ....... your alliance is the hired help, you are owned by the US Oligarchy, your opinions will make no difference.

ISIL can only be virtually destroyed in Syria. but not with Coalition troops or resources it won't because that just helps other terrorists like the regime and Hezbollah. It can't be completely destroyed in Syria. it can be completely and comprehensively defeated in Iraq thanks to Coalition and Iraqi Government policies. But that doesn't defeat ISIL Globally. They will still be a force globally.

Nobody has asked for coalition troops in Syria ..... you have not been invited. ISIS cannot be completely defeated .... period! Iraq is still overrun by them and will be for years to come. The coalition has left the western route out of Mosul open for ISIS fighters to route through to Syria. Thanks! Neither Hezbollah or the SAA are terrorist groups. The rest of the World will suffer covert intrusions and terrorism against civilian targets and that will be impossible to contain.

Whether you like it or not, Obama's approach to ISIL was the most successful, and sustainable and the only approach that systematically degrades ISIL globally. Assad and Pootin have the opposite effect.

You mean like supplying weapons to them and letting allies do likewise. Like bombing SAA facilities to facilitate ISIS attacks that were pre-planned? And he allowed them to gain strength so that they would carry out the ‘Assad must go!’ policy of the coalition. Yeah ...... he was very successful getting them to where they are today .... no doubt about that!

Assad and Putin have treated ISIS as a side issue; they were never the primary objective for either. As I have said before their combined strategy was to defeat the foreign terrorist insurgents you were recruiting, funding and arming to overthrow the elected government of Syria and its elected President

Please explain your logic that ‘Assad and Pootin have the opposite effect’ by impeding a ‘......sustainable and the only approach that systematically degrades ISIL globally.’ They would seem to have a lot more global power than you ever credit them for ........ except when looking for a scapegoat for coalition failures and disasters?

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

In case you haven't noticed, ISIL is being defeated in Iraq. They are being destroyed and downgraded daily and they will be expelled from Iraq.

Nobody has noticed because the only info coming out is from coalition or Iraq military sources. In your dreams ..... ISIS will never be defeated in Iraq or anywhere else.

That is a foregone conclusion.

No .... it is a delusion!

ISIL in Syria is another matter that doesn't really concern the Coalition too much as things have panned out. Coalition has a far greater purpose in Syria and it could bring about the birth of a Kurdish state.

Putin and Assad are slowly degrading ISIS in Syria. They have now driven them back some 12kn from Palmyra, in spite of all the help the coalition gave them to re-take it! Any ‘purpose’ of YOUR coalition in Syria is illegal and YOU will have no say in what happens in Northern Syria when the Russian/Iran/Turky group arrange for a legitimate autonomous Kurdish enclave that will still be part of Syria.

America's allies like Australia for one, will NEVER contemplate using its military in any form of cooperation with Pootin or Assad. That has a geostrategic implication for the USA because Australia will opt out. France and Britain might be the same.

Nobody will miss the Australians if you leave ....... hired help, remember! Did you not hear what Trump said ..... America first! So pack your bags, the deal will be/ has been done and Putin and Trump will cooperate against ISIS ........... believe me!

This has dire consequences for American Interests in the Asia pacific, South China Sea and Middle East.

You deal with it then. You keep claiming that Australia is the power behind the throne, now is your chance to prove it!

But no matter what, the Obama Administration has never actually stated that America can defeat ISIL globally. If they can do that, they would have done it to Al Qaeda.

He’s got more sense than you then?

These terrorist groups are global movements. We can't get to them in every country even if we wanted to. fact is we don't want to either because that would pretty much stretch us across many countries.

So why do the US need over 800 military bases in something like 150 countries? What are they doing .......... bird watching? I assume the ‘US’ is Australia assisted by the US military?

the smart thing to do is what the Coalition has been doing for the last 6 years as follows:

1) address and strangle the money supply that fund terrorist groups like ISIL,
2) address the radicalization issues,
3) implement peace and security in Iraq and Syria (achievable in Iraq only now),
4) address the recruitment initiatives of these groups,
5) electronic and cyberwar activities.
6) covert and surveillance operations.

Haven’t noticed it has made much difference. They appear to be as strong as ever in Iraq in spite of your claims ‘..... you are winning the battle’.

That is how ISIL can be defeated somewhat.

'Somewhat' .... you mean like a little bit defeated but not actually defeated? As I have told you many times ..... YOU just like Assad and Russia, can only degrade them to the point they cannot mount an open military campaign.

So, tell the Saudi’s and your other Gulf State friends to stop supplying them. Stop using your air power to support themin Syria, then maybe you will get somewhere?

Expelling ISIL from Iraq does NOT actually translate to a comprehensive defeat of ISIL.

That’s pretty well obvious but well said!

ISIL will be around in 10 and even 20 years time, unless the above points are addressed.

They will be around anyway ....... we just won’t see them driving around in US supplied Toyota trucks and Humvees, they will go by plane/train/bus to the four corners of the Earth. And just to think Kerry was convinced the US could control what they had created and allowed to grow?

Trump is being disingenuous to be saying the things he is saying. He is just pandering to his nationalistic southern base.

He tends to speak as he thinks and he seems to have no concept of unintended consequences. He has banned all Muslims ..... what will he do if the Saudi’s decide to throw the US out of Saudi or the Bahrainis throw the US out of its base there. Hmmmmm .... could be a problem!

There is no such thing as joining forces and eradicating ISIL. Kill 100 and they recruit 1000 more. Kill 1000 and they recruit 10,000 more. There recruitment grounds are very fertile. They are even able to recruit from Western Countries. You can't militarily defeat that.

Good, you are beginning to get the picture. YOUR military might can never de-create what you have created.

Furthermore, Russia and America joining forces undermines America's allies - Australia, Israel, France, UK, Japan, Germany, NATO.

Putin is far more valuable to the US as an ally that will work with Trump, than some of those you list.

Trump will get shot is what will happen before any such thing occurs. Another JFK!

Maybe! Or dies of a sudden undiagnosed heart condition, or he gets poisoned with a radioactive substance, there are a million ways ‘They’ could abruptly end his term as POTUS. But if that happens at the moment, there will be a civil uprising in the US, you can bet on that!

[Paphitis]

Yes and no. In terms of being an entity that touts itself as being in possession of territory, it can be and is being defeated. But, you are right to say that it cannot be fully defeated as a terrorist organisation, especially when lone wolf terrorists simply claim to have acted on its behalf.

Not just lone wolf strikes Tim. There will be well organized and executed attacks which will slip through our net in due course and much larger than September 11.

Our counter-terrorism measures have been thorough, but we have also been riding our luck somewhat and it's only a matter of time before that luck runs out.

Beating the terrorists relies on keeping the Sunnis on side, not push them towards radical groups. This is what the Coalition has been able to achieve in Iraq and why it is well on the way towards victory against DAESH within Iraqi borders. This is what Pootin has failed to do in Syria which undermines peace and security indefinately and the reason why my money is on DAESH there and the reason why I do not support a Coalition war effort in Syria against DAESH. We will fail there and get drawn into a war for at least a decade. I only support helping out Kurds, Assyrians and Yazidi in Syria and if necessary take action against the regime to facilitate another State.

I do not support helping the regime or Hezbollah. This undermines the war on terror and it has undermined the Coalitions work.

It appears the Coalition gets Iraq. It appears Russia, Hezbollah and DAESH get 60% of Syria and 40% will go to the Coalition, Kurds and Assyrians.

[Paphitis]

Yes and no. In terms of being an entity that touts itself as being in possession of territory, it can be and is being defeated. But, you are right to say that it cannot be fully defeated as a terrorist organisation, especially when lone wolf terrorists simply claim to have acted on its behalf.

As for the subject of this thread, there was an interesting development today.

Despite Trumps Presidential Decree to ban citizens from 7 countries from entering the USA, Trump has today agreed that it will take 1000 illegal immigrants stuck in Australian Detention Centres such as at the Manus Island facility. Some of them are citizens of those 7 countries.

What's even more interesting is that they will eventually end up with American citizenship but they will never be allowed entry into Australian as they will never be granted a tourist visa even.

This suggests that Trump is very eager to maintain its very constructive relationship with Australia OR Trump is pandering to the racists back home and is able to do this because this won't even make the papers back home and hence he is able to brush it under the carpet as if there is nothing to see here.

It also indicates a false deck of cards which will backfire if his supporter base finds out about it.

Department of Homeland Security are already at Manus interviewing the illegals.