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UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby B25 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:24 am

Kikapu wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Natural gas has made partition unacceptable to Turkey.

Partition means recognising firstly your own borders and those of others and the TRNC borders do not contain natural gas.

Chavus has lately been harping on about a confederation, a feeble attempt at partition while keeping turkish hands on the natural resources which belong to "all Cypriots" when located in the south, but are exclusive to the Turkish Cypriots when they lie in the north (Xeros mines).

Public opinion in the RC is ready for partition. They have had enough of the never ending stream of threats. An analysis of TC and Turkish officials' statements over the last five years is revealing, there is not one single conciliatory statement, not one promise of better times ahead. They are all threats or warnings. Whoever is doing their PR does not know the basics of communication.


I agree with you, Nikitas

Worse day for Turkey was when the Annan Plan was voted down, and the second worse day for Turkey was when a week later 100% of Cyprus became a full member of the EU. Those two acts have cut Turkey off the knees to have any control over the whole island unless the GCs give it to them in the form of another "Annan Plan", a Confederation deal. The RoC will not do neither, which means the status quo remains, which is better than any "Annan Plan" or the same, a Confederation plan.


Kiks, as much as I would like to agree with you, unfortunately, we have too many traitors in and out of Government that are ready to hand over Cyprus to Turkey. All these BS talks will drive us into a corner leaving us no exit and then the final blow.

If we meant business and got serious, the first thing we should do is to close all the crossing points, cut them off, stop all payments to TCs let Turkey feed them and that way they will see that we DO NOT NEED THEM, but they need us.

But alas! Time will tell, we may revisit this thread and I'll say 'I told you so'.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby Kikapu » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:39 am

B25 wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Natural gas has made partition unacceptable to Turkey.

Partition means recognising firstly your own borders and those of others and the TRNC borders do not contain natural gas.

Chavus has lately been harping on about a confederation, a feeble attempt at partition while keeping turkish hands on the natural resources which belong to "all Cypriots" when located in the south, but are exclusive to the Turkish Cypriots when they lie in the north (Xeros mines).

Public opinion in the RC is ready for partition. They have had enough of the never ending stream of threats. An analysis of TC and Turkish officials' statements over the last five years is revealing, there is not one single conciliatory statement, not one promise of better times ahead. They are all threats or warnings. Whoever is doing their PR does not know the basics of communication.


I agree with you, Nikitas

Worse day for Turkey was when the Annan Plan was voted down, and the second worse day for Turkey was when a week later 100% of Cyprus became a full member of the EU. Those two acts have cut Turkey off the knees to have any control over the whole island unless the GCs give it to them in the form of another "Annan Plan", a Confederation deal. The RoC will not do neither, which means the status quo remains, which is better than any "Annan Plan" or the same, a Confederation plan.


Kiks, as much as I would like to agree with you, unfortunately, we have too many traitors in and out of Government that are ready to hand over Cyprus to Turkey. All these BS talks will drive us into a corner leaving us no exit and then the final blow.

If we meant business and got serious, the first thing we should do is to close all the crossing points, cut them off, stop all payments to TCs let Turkey feed them and that way they will see that we DO NOT NEED THEM, but they need us.

But alas! Time will tell, we may revisit this thread and I'll say 'I told you so'.

Any action taken as you suggest B25, will only show the RoC as being vindictive towards the TCs, which would play into the hands of Turkey and the nationalist TCs, which would bring sympathy to the "trnc" from international community. The talks in the last 44+ years has not changed anything on the ground since 1974 illegal invasion by Turkey, so the "talks" are working in the favour of the RoC, including the whole island being part of the RoC and in the EU and the UN.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby Nikitas » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:56 am

An intense fifth column campaign is taking place in the GC community these days to prepare the ground for the next referendum and a revival of an Annan like plan.

Part of this attempt is the Glossary of terms determined to be offensive to the other side. The Glossary is offered for volutary adoption by the press, writers and educators. Just one example:

Mainland Turks who have settled in the TRNC should be called "refugees from Turkey" not settlers! The obvious double speak enraged public opinion. The vehemence of the response in the mass and social media showed that the population is not as passive as some thought. A political passivity cultivated by the a mix of NGOs and others.

The reaction caused President Anastasiades to give a specific interview regarding the Glossary.

The other development is Akkintzi. He portrayed himself as a Cypriot, one who made even the rotating presidency palatable. Then he went and buggered it up with a succession of statements that show him not only toeing the Erdoghan line, but often exceeding it. His entourage is not doing much better. A barrage of threatening statements regarding the natural gas, even threats of violence, has come from the TC PM FM and oddly enough the chief negotiator in the talks! All of them supposedly proggressive politicians.

Their threats have ruined the pitch (BBF or bust) so carefully laid by the fifth columnists on the GC side. Someone buggered up on the coordination of propaganda LOL!

The natural gas issue looks to the average person as an encore of the EU entry which was opposed during the preparation stage. The GC side did the heavy lifting, under a constant barrage of TC and Turkish negativity. When the entry was complete 94000 RC passports were issued to TCs who were not averse to the benefits of membership.

Most GCs are fed up doing the heavy lifting and it is getting to the point that even the holy grail, the return of Famagusta, is losing its power over GC public opinion. Voices are now being heard that it might be time to face up to the possibility of it never being returned. If that takes hold then Akkintzi will have lost whatever leverage Famagusta offered. Add the negative stance on Morphou and the negotiating bait is gone. No Morphou, too many games too long over Famagusta, no sense pursuing a dead end. You can see it in the humorous attitude to warnings that this round of talks is a "last chance". Cartoonists and satirists are having a great time with that one.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:43 am

We will have to wait and see what Erdogan will do with his new powers. While his electorate is in favour of "Turkishness", it is not his only concern. He must realise that such a political view is tearing Turkey apart, and that it will also leave Turkey isolated internationally speaking. He has a Legacy to think about, beside the trains, bridges, mosques, and palaces he builds. It is not likely, as a Statesman that, he will leave himself admired by only half of Turkey, and no one else.

He will have to unite Turkey, and he will have to act in such a manner where the rest of the world will have the same esteem for him as well.

Cyprus is the key. A united Cyprus offers this hope to the Turks in Turkey, not "Turkish". It is the "Turks" in Cyprus who he will betray to get what he wants.

...indeed fifty years of Turkish diplomacy went down the tubes with the Annan Plan's failure. By Annan 4 it was a waste of time, by Annan 5, it had become a farce. Even the paltry majority the "Turks" got in that referendum indicates this position (it was not overwhelming). Turkey greatest adversary in effect are the Cypriot People; the "Greeks" in that regard are the Cypriots' worst enemy.

Akinci has betrayed his voters, demonstrating that he is no more than a yes man who has sold out to a dogma which no one supports, except the bagmen who like him, dream of their shoe boxes full of money. The time is not yet ripe, but it will in the end come down to a battle between those who respect the Universal Principals Mankind has grasped to be what makes Humans, Human, and those who think that, race, and/or ethnicity count for more. There is only one God. In that regard, i am hopeful; Erdogan is not as stupid as he appears to be.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby Lordo » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:41 pm

rw how on earth can you come to such judgment about akinci when
1. he has said he accepts the guterres framework when erdogan and anastasiades do not
2. he accepted that gurantees can be replaced by implementation plan and and so has erdogan but anastasiades does not
3. he accepts that ta will be reduced very rapidly according to implementation plan with the old numbers from 1960 agreement and they would be reviewd in the future.
4. anastasiades has gone back and no longer supports rotating presidency even though it has been agreed and signed
5. anastasiades has gone back on the political equality at the federal level even though it has been signed
6. anastasiades has gone back on his word and now demands that troops and guarantees must go from day one instead of accroding to the implementation plan.
7 in saying he wants a normal country what he means is a unitary state with one man one vote without saying it so everybody can have no doubt about what he is saying. i would have a lot more respect for him if he came out and said it and he has every right to ask for it. but the tcs have every right to refuse it and demand a two state solution if unitary state is what he is after.

it is time that he grew some balls and say what he means and it is not just him, quite a few people here seems lost theirs too.

there is a very old saying you can take the donkey to the water but you cannot make it drink.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:08 am

...it is up to Akinci, i said it before.

He was elected by Cypriots, not "Turks", but from the night he was elected, he was hesitant, and he has not stood up to be his electorate's representative since then. You remember of course ELAM's victory in parliament, and you must also remembrer Anastasiades standing alone while he tried to make legislation that was more balanced. You remember of course how he ridiculed Anastasiades for wearing two hats, and at Crans-Montana he sat silently while it was Anastasiades who stood defending Cyprus, and Cypriots.

...If he is a Cypriot he can do a lot better, for Cypriots.

Akinci, by representing Turks, and not "Turkishness", solves the Cyprus Problem; but more importantly, imo, he will save Turkey from what divides its People.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby Lordo » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:48 pm

rw you are just not following the news close enough.

few days afyer akinci was elected he went to tergggy. he was being intervied live on tv by one of the news stations and he expressed the idea that tcs are no longer the baby nation (yavru vatan) to use his words and instead is kardesh vatan - sister/brother nation. erdogan was so disgusted by his words and had the news time cut short. since then he has gone against erdogan on guarantees and the troops and returning land.

the problem with your average gc is that they have become blind and deaf. if you followod what went on in crans-montana you would have known that akinci has bent over backwards going against erdogan and anastasiades instead of compromising he hardened his stance to demanding the troops and guarantees to go from day one.

if you have missed all the above or you think that the above are not really anything substantial agaionst erdogan from akinci i really do feel sorry for you and the gc nation. surely you will get your just deserts in the end. the talks have finished which is why the lady did not travel to the guarantors. unless anastasiades accepts the gueterees framework and he has not got all that much time to do it.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:50 am

...if he wanted to express himself as a Cypriot, he would have done so in simple terms that are easy to understand.

If he stood for his electorate, those in the north who voted for him, he would have the support of Cypriots in the south. He has made no effort to do so.

Look at the actions he has taken with Sener Levant's travails, always too little too late; through a spokesperson and not directly.

Where does he challenge the thinking that has gone on far too long, that the Cyprus Problem is a negotiation between "Greeks" and "Turks"? Is he "Turkish"?

Indeed, what did he say at Crans-Montana; nothing, nothing at all.

...and what of the Guterres framework? Eide wrote it, and revised it; where exactly does he make his position, about that, clear?

While we complain of Greek flags flying predominately in the south, there is the Cyprus flag flying among them. Has any effort been made to do the same in the so called TRNC? While there is a majority, for the first time in a long time, in his legislature, has he used it to promote a Cypriot cause, a Cypriot agenda? What has he done to promote Constitutional reform, in Cyprus, or in his "Constituency"? What has he done to prepare Cypriots for change?

...at best he is a parrot, at worst he has betrayed Cypriots for a shoe box full of money.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:57 pm

you can always tell who good politicians are. those who say what they are going to do it and actually do what they said they would do. i have not come accross one tc who voted for him and is unhappy with what he has done. he represents the tcs and their interests. he risked the well being of the tcs going against the might of erdogan but i don't suppose he will get any thnaks from the likes of you. if you live for another 50 years you may perhaps begin to appreciate what kind of a man he is and was.
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Re: UNITARY or PARTITION - NO "Federal" Middle Ground!

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:57 pm

In simple terms if he seeks for his "community'' recognition as a Constituency, the "new" Cyprus that is put to him is not the way, it does not matter which ''statement'', June or July. He must demonstrate that he recognises, that his ideal is possible as Cypriots through constitutional reform; as Cypriots, not as "Turks", and that which is not "Turkish". In short, he can demand that the Communal Chamber is opened, (or perhaps Mr. Anastasiades should offer to do this first, another "dinner" could iron that out), that there are Greek Cypriot representatives there waiting for them (this time) in their seats. He can represent his support for what undeniably exists as a starting point, a Cypriot People. He can prepare his Constituency for the next elections in Cyprus' Legislature (in three years) with Candidates and Platforms that make a better Cyprus, for Cyprus, with this intention returning to the seats that remain empty, there. New thinking is needed indeed; new perspectives too. "Being" Cypriot is not insignificant.
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