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Boeing 737 MAX+

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Londonrake » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:39 am

Boeing to be sued by consumer champion Ralph Nader https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47822008

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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby erolz66 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:51 am

Paphitis do you feel any embarrassment at all that just about every single thing you have said and often stated as 'fact', whilst also claiming you refuse to speculate, up until this point in this thread has been wrong ?

So far, the media are saying that because there were 2 crashes quite possibly with MCAS as a contributing factor, that it must be Boeing's fault and that the entire fleet should be grounded. This is NOT the case. The accident was caused because 2 pilots stalled the aircraft. This is the primary cause. This is a situation that is completely avoidable by proficient and experienced pilots. Pilots should never rely on Stall Avoidance. To me, this is unacceptable. Also, the grounding is precautionary. The MCAS is just a safety feature, not a replacement to good Airmanship.

The B737 MAXI will also be flying within the next few days as well.

Rest assured, Boeing knows what it is doing. The B737 is probably the best built aircraft and most successful aircraft ever built.

There is definitely a training issue element in the Ethiopian Airlines Crash.

The problem with this accident I hate to say is mostly pilot error.

I'm not convinced at all that the MCAS has done anything other than do EXACTLY what it's designed to do.

The only clear thing for me at this point is that the pilots were not trained to deal with this (MCAS) after they stalled the aircraft.

Sorry but I can't see how Boeing is to blame here.

I am not going to speculate on bullshit in the meantime.

There are a number of ways to disengage the MCAS.

MCAS only engages to correct an already present pilot error.

The MCAS could easily be disengaged. It would not have been certified if that was not the case.

Now, I don't read the media or listen to anything the media has to say about this crash or any other crash.

Even if there was a faulty sensor, the entire MCAS can be disengaged. People are getting too far ahead of themselves.

One more thing, I would have no problem flying and having my family fly on a B737 MAXI. I believe the B737 MAXI is a great plane.

They had an MCAS event, and they could have disengaged it very easily.

This is why I don't jump to any conclusions and I don't read the hysterical media.

The B737 MAXI will be flying very soon.

I'm not prepared to speculate because I don't have all the facts or evidence and this investigation is going to take months.

The safety culture is beyond question and sacred.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:25 am

erolz66 wrote:Paphitis do you feel any embarrassment at all that just about every single thing you have said and often stated as 'fact', whilst also claiming you refuse to speculate, up until this point in this thread has been wrong ?

So far, the media are saying that because there were 2 crashes quite possibly with MCAS as a contributing factor, that it must be Boeing's fault and that the entire fleet should be grounded. This is NOT the case. The accident was caused because 2 pilots stalled the aircraft. This is the primary cause. This is a situation that is completely avoidable by proficient and experienced pilots. Pilots should never rely on Stall Avoidance. To me, this is unacceptable. Also, the grounding is precautionary. The MCAS is just a safety feature, not a replacement to good Airmanship.

The B737 MAXI will also be flying within the next few days as well.

Rest assured, Boeing knows what it is doing. The B737 is probably the best built aircraft and most successful aircraft ever built.

There is definitely a training issue element in the Ethiopian Airlines Crash.

The problem with this accident I hate to say is mostly pilot error.

I'm not convinced at all that the MCAS has done anything other than do EXACTLY what it's designed to do.

The only clear thing for me at this point is that the pilots were not trained to deal with this (MCAS) after they stalled the aircraft.

Sorry but I can't see how Boeing is to blame here.

I am not going to speculate on bullshit in the meantime.

There are a number of ways to disengage the MCAS.

MCAS only engages to correct an already present pilot error.

The MCAS could easily be disengaged. It would not have been certified if that was not the case.

Now, I don't read the media or listen to anything the media has to say about this crash or any other crash.

Even if there was a faulty sensor, the entire MCAS can be disengaged. People are getting too far ahead of themselves.

One more thing, I would have no problem flying and having my family fly on a B737 MAXI. I believe the B737 MAXI is a great plane.

They had an MCAS event, and they could have disengaged it very easily.

This is why I don't jump to any conclusions and I don't read the hysterical media.

The B737 MAXI will be flying very soon.

I'm not prepared to speculate because I don't have all the facts or evidence and this investigation is going to take months.

The safety culture is beyond question and sacred.


No I am not embarrassed at all. I provide valid information for people to decipher and I standby my contributions because there is nothing wrong or misleading about them.

What I have said is extremely valid. There is a lot going on here just from the fact that the Manual Trim had failed. The preliminary findings have not yet addressed that, probably because they too are not sure what had caused this.

The pilots tried to manually trim the aircraft but they could not.

This accident was not just caused because of the MCAS sensor failure. It was a contributor, but what about the Manual Trim Failure? That is something I can't explain. What caused that?

I said from the outset that I defer to the official reports. There will be many findings here.

The report stated that the pilots tried to counteract the MCAS with Electric Trim inputs. The Electric Trim can not override the MCAS = therefore, pilot error.

Then it stated that the pilots performed the correct Stab Trim cutout procedure as per the manual and Boeing's instructions just before the crash. This is what they should have done.

But was it too late? It appears so.

There is no doubt that there is also a strong element of pilot error here. There is also a finding that one of the sensors was faulty.

Not that it matters because the investigation will not attribute any blame on either the pilots or Boeing.

After the autopilot disengaged, the DFDR recorded an automatic aircraft nose down (AND) trim command four times without pilot’s input. As a result, three motions of the stabilizer trim were recorded.The FDR data also indicated that the crew utilized the electric manual trim to counter the automatic AND input.

The crew performed runaway stabilizer checklist and put the stab trim cutout switch to cutout position and confirmed that the manual trim operation was not working.


The Stab Trim cut out procedure for trim runaway was performed about 2 minutes and 40 seconds from the actual crash.

At 05:40:35, the First-Officercalled out“stab trim cut-out”two times. Captain agreed and First-Officerconfirmed stab trim cut-out


They tried to perform some manual trims after that with no real response. You can draw your own conclusions.

I again defer to the final report because my only offering here is that the aircraft might not have been recoverable even with full nose up trim.

I'm not going to guess because I have never seen this before in any of my experience and none of my colleagues have seen it before either.

But here is something for you. The MCAS isn't the only thing going on here.

The whole point of a Manual Trim is to allow manual trim input in case of trim runway.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Lordo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:27 am

erolz66 wrote:Paphitis do you feel any embarrassment at all that just about every single thing you have said and often stated as 'fact', whilst also claiming you refuse to speculate, up until this point in this thread has been wrong ?

So far, the media are saying that because there were 2 crashes quite possibly with MCAS as a contributing factor, that it must be Boeing's fault and that the entire fleet should be grounded. This is NOT the case. The accident was caused because 2 pilots stalled the aircraft. This is the primary cause. This is a situation that is completely avoidable by proficient and experienced pilots. Pilots should never rely on Stall Avoidance. To me, this is unacceptable. Also, the grounding is precautionary. The MCAS is just a safety feature, not a replacement to good Airmanship.

The B737 MAXI will also be flying within the next few days as well.

Rest assured, Boeing knows what it is doing. The B737 is probably the best built aircraft and most successful aircraft ever built.

There is definitely a training issue element in the Ethiopian Airlines Crash.

The problem with this accident I hate to say is mostly pilot error.

I'm not convinced at all that the MCAS has done anything other than do EXACTLY what it's designed to do.

The only clear thing for me at this point is that the pilots were not trained to deal with this (MCAS) after they stalled the aircraft.

Sorry but I can't see how Boeing is to blame here.

I am not going to speculate on bullshit in the meantime.

There are a number of ways to disengage the MCAS.

MCAS only engages to correct an already present pilot error.

The MCAS could easily be disengaged. It would not have been certified if that was not the case.

Now, I don't read the media or listen to anything the media has to say about this crash or any other crash.

Even if there was a faulty sensor, the entire MCAS can be disengaged. People are getting too far ahead of themselves.

One more thing, I would have no problem flying and having my family fly on a B737 MAXI. I believe the B737 MAXI is a great plane.

They had an MCAS event, and they could have disengaged it very easily.

This is why I don't jump to any conclusions and I don't read the hysterical media.

The B737 MAXI will be flying very soon.

I'm not prepared to speculate because I don't have all the facts or evidence and this investigation is going to take months.

The safety culture is beyond question and sacred.

a stupid individual cannot see thier own stupidity so would not feel any embarassment about the stupid comments they make.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:05 am

Right! And your one liner is intelligent is it?

You have nothing to add other than stupid ignorant remarks.

Why don't you look at your contribution and compare them to mine. If I am stupid, then you have the intelligence of a cockroach. You have added NOTHING, whilst my posts are a wealth of information.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby miltiades » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:14 am

Paphitis wrote:Right! And your one liner is intelligent is it?

You have nothing to add other than stupid ignorant remarks.

Why don't you look at your contribution and compare them to mine. If I am stupid, then you have the intelligence of a cockroach. You have added NOTHING, whilst my posts are a wealth of information.

Your input on Syria was ...owsome !!
Also your views on the US elections. !!
And another, you added your tapence worth on Tesla !! Take a look at this stock, and it has a long way to go, DOWN !!
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Lordo » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:18 pm

Paphitis wrote:Right! And your one liner is intelligent is it?

You have nothing to add other than stupid ignorant remarks.

Why don't you look at your contribution and compare them to mine. If I am stupid, then you have the intelligence of a cockroach. You have added NOTHING, whilst my posts are a wealth of information.

why write 10 lines when one will do, did you not understand what i said, i can expand it and give you real life examples, and perhaps than you will understand it better.

hows is that for another on liner.

"win one for the gipper" - won another idiot the election becasue all the idiots understood it.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:12 pm

So there were those 'experts' that blamed the pilots ........... :roll:

Some U.S. pilots, as well as some commentators here, publicly blamed the darker skin pilots for not using the simple procedure the FAA had put out: "Why didn't they just flip the switches? Stupid undertrained third-world dudes."


This is the latest analysis information and opinions of experienced professional avionics engineers and pilots ........

Avionics engineer Peter Lemme details the physics involved in this. Lemme concludes:

With the 737MAX cutout switches, MCAS runaway is stopped by throwing both switches, losing electric trim altogether. In this case, the flight crew must rely on manual trim via turning the trim wheel/crank. As discussed above, the manual crank can bind up, making flying much more difficult.


Bjorn Fehrm, a senior engineeer and pilot now writing at Leeham News, came to a similar conclusion:

[We] can now reveal how it’s possible the aircraft can crash despite using the Cut-Out switches. To verify, we ran it all in a simulator together with MentourPilot Youtube channel over the last days.

At a miss-trimmed Stabilator, you either have to re-engage Electric trim or off-load the Stabilator jackscrew by stick forward, creating a nose-down bunt maneuver, followed by trim.

Stick forward to trim was not an option for ET302, they were at 1,000ft above ground. According to The Wall Street Journal, the ET302 crew re-engaged electrical trim to save the situation, to get the nose up. It was their only chance. But too late. The aggressive MCAS kicked in and worsened the situation before they could counter it.

On the FAA's Airworthiness Directive Fehrm writes:

Nowhere is it described the trim could be impossible to move if the Cut-Out switches were cut at the slightest miss-trim at the speeds flown. And there is no warning on when to move the Cut-Out switches, the checklist says “Cut, then trim manually.” This is not the whole truth
.
A detailed analysis of the flight recorder data as documented in the preliminary crash report confirms the conclusions:

The high speed of 340kts indicated airspeed and the trim at 2.3 units causes the Stabilator manual trim to jam, one can’t move it by hand. The crew is busy trying to hand trim the next two minutes but no trim change is achieved.


Full article .......

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/04/ethiopian-airline-crash-boeing-and-faa-advice-to-737-max-pilots-was-insufficient-and-flawed.html#more
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:28 pm

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Right! And your one liner is intelligent is it?

You have nothing to add other than stupid ignorant remarks.

Why don't you look at your contribution and compare them to mine. If I am stupid, then you have the intelligence of a cockroach. You have added NOTHING, whilst my posts are a wealth of information.

Your input on Syria was ...owsome !!
Also your views on the US elections. !!
And another, you added your tapence worth on Tesla !! Take a look at this stock, and it has a long way to go, DOWN !!


Nothing wrong with my input on the US elections. I am a Trump supporter through and through, He is a God send.

I'm also a Brexiteer. I think BREXIT is the UK's finest hour when the get their country back for the Euro bullshit bureaucrats you so love. You on the other hand are left posting total bullshit and stupidity against the millions of Brits that seem to rightfully view the EU with suspicion. You are nothing but a stupid cuck! A traitor! Not only are you a traitor to the UK which you claim to love, but you are also a traitor to Cyprus because Cyprus its not as if Cyprus was treated with any dignity or respect from the EU.

And I don't support criminal tyrants like Assad,

As for Tesla. That is one for the long term. The company is at the forefront of innovation is what I said. I never recommended anyone to buy the stock. If you did, that is a long term holding.

And all of the above are completely irrelevant with this crash.
Last edited by Paphitis on Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 737 MAX+

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:37 pm

Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Right! And your one liner is intelligent is it?

You have nothing to add other than stupid ignorant remarks.

Why don't you look at your contribution and compare them to mine. If I am stupid, then you have the intelligence of a cockroach. You have added NOTHING, whilst my posts are a wealth of information.

why write 10 lines when one will do, did you not understand what i said, i can expand it and give you real life examples, and perhaps than you will understand it better.

hows is that for another on liner.

"win one for the gipper" - won another idiot the election becasue all the idiots understood it.


You said something? I must have missed it. All I got was some cynical nonsense.
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