Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

Well, lets ask RH who is a UK citizen living in Cyprus for 20+ years in what benefits he receives in Cyprus, if any, as a EU citizen and what would happen to it if he does in a no deal Brexit?

I will tell you.

I was fortunate enough to have access to an authority in the MoH and went through all this in 2015/2016 and her advice was sound. Basically she said nothing will change! She was right.

We have been here going on 25 years. As I said in the previous post, we get full cover on exactly the same terms as would a Cypriot National We get that because of this reciprocal arrangement that precedes any arrangement with the EU. So my health care has little to do with being 'European' but being a UK Pensioner. If I live here not as a pensioner and I am not working then I would need insurance I would be entitled to nothing other than the EU A&E cover. If you are working then it is the same rules as apply to any working Cypriot.

My wife has even had treatment abroad (Athens) that was not available in Cyprus and that included not only the medical treatment but her travel costs, our one night hotel bill and a 20% discount on my airfare as I travelled as her carer. She also gets a twice yearly set of tests including 47 blood tests and a EEG type of nerve exam, at the Cyprus Institute of Neurology and Genetics ..... and all for Eu6 + Eu10 for the blood tests. The EEG is free.

I have no complaints about the Cyprus GHS system and for speed and choice of specialists is, IMO, better than you would get on the NHS in the UK going by reports in the media.

So far we have found the new system to be reasonable but badly thought out. Being over 65 we each get 10 general practitioner visits before we have to pay Eu15 a visit. The problem is that you need to see the doctor to get a referral to a specialist you have been seeing for years every six months. So it appears that we need to use 2 of the 10 visits for free to just get a referral from the doctor who has no idea what the treatment is or what it is for! A referral is only valid for three months then it expires, as do prescriptions apparently. So the system needs tidying up!

The doctors are also abusing the system! I had a small cyst removed, it took 15 minutes with 2 small stitches. No problem paid the EU6 fee. Went back 3 days later to change the dressing, less than a minute. He took it of and said that's OK. He then charged another Eu6??. Went back a week after the op to have the stiches out ..... 2 minutes and he asked for another Eu6.

OK, Eu18 is nothing ...... BUT, every time I pay him Eu6 ..... he charges the GHS Eu50 !! Having been stitched up before at the Limassol General, I paid the Eu6 but the x-ray, changing the dressing (about five times) and finally having 11 stitches removed was included and all free. This seems to me how it should also work for private clinics as in my opinion, the private doctor abused the system and this sort of abuse will cause the treatment to deteriorate/collapse.

[Lordo]

all the brexiteers are actually having wet dreams leaving the eu and begin trading with the commonwealth thinking it was great while that was going on in the old days.

wnever mind how long it will take to actually strat trading with wto rule but what really went on in those days. did we trade with them both directions. unfortunately not. what did take place was use stole the resources of the commonwealth countries and sold them to europe.

as to america, what is that we will be able to sell to them that somehow wil make our loss in tradewith the eu in some way easier. fak all. how many jaguars or rolls roce engins can we sell them. perhaps they wil buy our lamb or cheese or even tea.

[Lordo]

is it within bojos power to call for an election first week of september and set the date to be in fisrt week of november?

The Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 received Royal Assent on 15 September 2011 and came into force on that day. The Act has a major impact on the timing of parliamentary elections in the UK. It removed the prerogative power of the Queen, on the advice of the Prime Minister, to dissolve Parliament and trigger a general election. The Act set the date of the general election on 7 May 2015 and provided that thereafter general elections are scheduled to take place on the first Thursday in May in every fifth year. The next election was scheduled to take place on 7 May 2020.

However, on 19 April 2017, in accordance with the Act, the House of Commons agreed a motion “That there shall be an early parliamentary general election”. On 18 April 2017, the Prime Minister announced that she planned to call an early election on 8 June 2017. A proclamation, announcing that the general election would take place on 8 June 2017, was issued on 25 April 2017, so Parliament will dissolve on 3 May 2017.

The Act specifies that early elections can be held only:

if a motion for an early general election is agreed either by at least two-thirds of the whole House or without division; or
if a motion of no confidence is passed and no alternative government is confirmed by the Commons within 14 days.

After the election on 8 June, the next general election is scheduled to take place on 5 May 2022.

The Act itself does not affect the operation of parliamentary sessions but from the spring of 2012, sessions have run from spring to spring.

Because elections to the Scottish Parliament and the National Assembly for Wales were scheduled for 7 May 2015, the Act provided for these elections to be held on 5 May 2016, extending the normal four year term to five years. Subsequent elections to the Scottish Parliament will revert to four yearly intervals. But section 1(1) of the Wales Act 2014 provides that subsequent elections to the NAW will take place in every fifth year. The Act did not specify an election date for the Northern Ireland Assembly, but section 7 of the Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014 postponed the elections to 2016 and provided that subsequent elections will take place in every fifth year thereafter.

Commons Briefing papers SN06111

Author: Richard Kelly

Topics: Elections, Parliament

brexitees will get comfort from this

[cyprusgrump]

Those that claim Boris is 'scared' to call an election seem not to have heard of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011

[Kikapu]

Kikapu:

Yes but, the UK citizens too benefited in health care from the other EU member states just as the EU immigrants had in the UK, so the question is, when the EU immigrants would be cut off from health services in the UK for at least for 7 years, would the same happen/happened to U.K. citizens in the rest of EU states. I believe the UK citizens would have continued getting benefits outside the UK while the EU citizens would have been denied the same in the UK. How fair is that?

You overlook the fact that what we as UK ex-pats get in the Cyprus GHS is a reciprocal arrangement between the two countries. It is not a blanket cover because we are EU passport holders.

By all means give immigrants, any immigrants, basic health care and basic social facilities but not an open door for all heath care and social benefits that are sometimes even denied to UK people who have contributed to it. When entering the UK they should be made to provide insurance or prove they are entitled to reciprocal cover by arrangement with their country of origin like the EU Medical Card and the acknowledgement from the country of origin by settling the bill BEFORE the NHS gives anything other than emergency treatment.

I recently saw a truly enormous amount of money, millions, quoted as being owed to the NHS by EU citizens who come to the UK for treatment and where their own country never settles the bill. That is abuse of the NHS.

I agree with you RH. All I am saying is, if immigrants are coming to work in the UK and paying taxes through different avenues, they should have the same benefits afforded to them as it is given to anyone else in the UK and not have a two tier system. Nothing more, nothing less. When Cameron asked the EU to except the UK for 13 years with a possibility to extend not to provide any benefits to EU immigrants, the EU bent backwards to give him 7 years. In the end, that was not enough, so it seems like Brexit is not about money, the economics or services given to legitimate immigrants. It has more to do with the UK not being able to be part of EU in making collective decision for the good of Europe and the EU citizens, but instead in wanting to believe they can be an empire again, much like Turkey is trying to be, no matter how delusional they may be.

[Kikapu]

Well, lets ask RH who is a UK citizen living in Cyprus for 20+ years in what benefits he receives in Cyprus, if any, as a EU citizen and what would happen to it if he does in a no deal Brexit?

I will tell you.

I was fortunate enough to have access to an authority in the MoH and went through all this in 2015/2016 and her advice was sound. Basically she said nothing will change! She was right.

We have been here going on 25 years. As I said in the previous post, we get full cover on exactly the same terms as would a Cypriot National We get that because of this reciprocal arrangement that precedes any arrangement with the EU. So my health care has little to do with being 'European' but being a UK Pensioner. If I live here not as a pensioner and I am not working then I would need insurance I would be entitled to nothing other than the EU A&E cover. If you are working then it is the same rules as apply to any working Cypriot.

My wife has even had treatment abroad (Athens) that was not available in Cyprus and that included not only the medical treatment but her travel costs, our one night hotel bill and a 20% discount on my airfare as I travelled as her carer. She also gets a twice yearly set of tests including 47 blood tests and a EEG type of nerve exam, at the Cyprus Institute of Neurology and Genetics ..... and all for Eu6 + Eu10 for the blood tests. The EEG is free.

I have no complaints about the Cyprus GHS system and for speed and choice of specialists is, IMO, better than you would get on the NHS in the UK going by reports in the media.

So far we have found the new system to be reasonable but badly thought out. Being over 65 we each get 10 general practitioner visits before we have to pay Eu15 a visit. The problem is that you need to see the doctor to get a referral to a specialist you have been seeing for years every six months. So it appears that we need to use 2 of the 10 visits for free to just get a referral from the doctor who has no idea what the treatment is or what it is for! A referral is only valid for three months then it expires, as do prescriptions apparently. So the system needs tidying up!

The doctors are also abusing the system! I had a small cyst removed, it took 15 minutes with 2 small stitches. No problem paid the EU6 fee. Went back 3 days later to change the dressing, less than a minute. He took it of and said that's OK. He then charged another Eu6??. Went back a week after the op to have the stiches out ..... 2 minutes and he asked for another Eu6.

OK, Eu18 is nothing ...... BUT, every time I pay him Eu6 ..... he charges the GHS Eu50 !! Having been stitched up before at the Limassol General, I paid the Eu6 but the x-ray, changing the dressing (about five times) and finally having 11 stitches removed was included and all free. This seems to me how it should also work for private clinics as in my opinion, the private doctor abused the system and this sort of abuse will cause the treatment to deteriorate/collapse.

Great explanation, thank you. So, as retired U.K. citizens and an agreement between states, you are able to retain your benefits in Cyprus, which is great. But since Cyprus does not have the same system as the UK with it‘s healthcare where the working locals would need to have private insurance or pay out of pocket for services received, the same rules would apply to you also if you were younger and not already retired, therefore you would not be treated any differently. Whatever the system is in any country, then everyone should be treated equally whether they are natives or legal immigrants, which the UK did not want to treat everyone equally those living, working and paying taxes in the UK. The term “taxation without representation” comes to mind, no?

[Lordo]

Those that claim Boris is 'scared' to call an election seem not to have heard of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011

there must be something in your eye you are winking too much. your are showing your ignorance on how politics work in britain. may wanted to have an election and parliament obliged.

read the rules again. a pm can call for election but it has to be approved by parliament. if he calls for an election and have one before the 31st the parlaiment will vote for it and it requires two thirds vote for it. i am sure parliement will oblige if he does so. but he is scared shitless. and or course knowing what they are in for, brexiteers are scared shitless so they may not vote for it and it may not reach two thirds.

the only other way round it is vote of no confidence followed by vote of confidence which only needs a simple majority.

can you imagine a country that has a rule about calling an early general election of two thirds of the vote but allows a vote of simple majority to implement a major change of leaving the eu.

i have a question for you though. assuming that the worst happens and we do indeed leave on the 31st without a deal.... will we be able to begin trading with the wto rules on the 1st of november?
what happens if we ar unable to.

now i see bojo and his cronies is caged i feel happier.

enjoy

[Robin Hood]

Kikapu:

I agree with you RH. All I am saying is, if immigrants are coming to work in the UK and paying taxes through different avenues, they should have the same benefits afforded to them as it is given to anyone else in the UK and not have a two tier system. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can’t agree although it does seem unfair. If you take out car insurance you have to wait to build up enough years without an accident to be entitled to a no-claims bonus? Much the same with a job. You and the guy next to you may have the same qualifications and do the same job but he gets paid more than you as he has been there longer ...... does his extra time and experience not entitle him to more money than you get? Vice versa, if you had been working there for some years and a new employee with equal qualifications was paid the same as you ‘just to be fair’ would you not be a bit miffed? I believe your ‘extra contribution’ should entitle you to more.

I agree there should be a minimum level cover for all, but not for pre-existing conditions or on-going conditions and only then to cover essential/emergency treatment level. The number of foreign women who turn up for delivery at LHR or Dover is apparently quiet a large number and I don’t think we should treat them. That is exploiting the system.

When Cameron asked the EU to except the UK for 13 years with a possibility to extend not to provide any benefits to EU immigrants, the EU bent backwards to give him 7 years. In the end, that was not enough, so it seems like Brexit is not about money, the economics or services given to legitimate immigrants. It has more to do with the UK not being able to be part of EU in making collective decision for the good of Europe and the EU citizens, but instead in wanting to believe they can be an empire again, much like Turkey is trying to be, no matter how delusional they may be

.
But if our system is being dragged down by providing carte-blanche medical and social services to people from Europe who have never contributed then it is those that have contributed all their lives that will pay through a degradation of the service. Is THAT fair? I really don’t go for the ‘Little Englander’ or the ‘returning to the colonial era’ as a valid observation. The British, or at least those I know, are not that shallow or stupid.

I only get the modest UK pension entitlement because I have the full contribution requirement to get it, plus SERPS, so I get a bit more because I paid extra for it. If I had fallen short I would either have had to pay more to reach the minimum requirement or take a smaller pension.

Let me put a question to you? What if we were talking pensions here? I make full contributions of some 45 years of paying for NI stamps. A Polish guy aged 64 arrives in the UK to join a son/daughter ........ on the same basis would you think it fair if he got an equal UK minimum pension when he reached 65 just because he was from an EU country, although he had never contibuted?

Being fair and giving equal treatment to all is all well and good if, as a State, you have the unlimited resources to be so benevolent.

[Robin Hood]

Kikapu:

So, as retired U.K. citizens and an agreement between states, you are able to retain your benefits in Cyprus, which is great. But since Cyprus does not have the same system as the UK with it‘s healthcare where the working locals would need to have private insurance or pay out of pocket for services received, the same rules would apply to you also if you were younger and not already retired, therefore you would not be treated any differently.

Correct. I am treated as per the Cyprus system not the UK system just because I have a UK passport.

Whatever the system is in any country, then everyone should be treated equally whether they are natives or legal immigrants, which the UK did not want to treat everyone equally those living, working and paying taxes in the UK. The term “taxation without representation” comes to mind, no?

But if a family from say Rumania turns up at immigration EU passports in hand and not much else, why should THEY be entitled to be treated to all the benefits that many of our poor people cannot normally get, because the system is based on the value of assets, not just income. They could have sold a business and property in Rumania, put the proceeds off-shore and live like royalty at our expense.

It is a nice feeling to be benevolent to be fair, just and trusting of your fellow man, but the years have taught me that there are ALWAYS those that will exploit anything they are ‘entitled’ to and can get for free.

[cyprusgrump]

EU EXPORTS DOWN STRONGLY, UK EXPORTS UP STRONGLY

Remainers pointing to soft economic numbers in the UK should note that trade between euro-zone member states fell by 6.6% in June compared to the same period last year. That was the fastest such contraction since 2013. Exports from the eurozone to the rest of the world also dropped by 4.7%, the fastest rate since 2016. The EU can’t blame the fall in intra-bloc trade on China…

This is massively under-performing compared to exports of goods and services from the UK which grew 4.5% in June, the most since October 2016. Shipments of goods in particular surged 7.6%, driven by machinery & transport equipment. The €uro looks over-valued…