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latest round of talks

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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:53 pm

what chance for peace if they can't even agree on terms of reference. so akinci said he would accept the guterres framework presumably anastasiades is objecting to the framework and refuses to start talking using it as term of reference.

no wonder 56 years and we are nowhere, we can't even have the terms of reference to negotiate with.

time to pack it all up.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:18 pm

now this is what i call a result

The European Commission adopted today "an Annual Action Programme for a total amount of €35.4 million identifying new projects to facilitate the reunification of Cyprus", announced today in Brussels.
According to the Commission, "the objective of the programme is to encourage the economic development of the Turkish Cypriot community with particular emphasis on the economic integration of the island, on improving contacts between the two communities and with the EU, and on preparation for the acquis communautaire".




http://www.cna.org.cy/webnews-en.aspx?a=4160bd3b6aab43db9d8bfd523c6856aa&fbclid=IwAR0cTfq7dw8njj2tDbmNEc7mHyIekZjUPX8XNFDkZ82tzK1RSzqrqqaRTk0
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:07 pm

it seems some pibol do not understand what they are reading. here is what was signed up to in 11 february 2014.

11 February 2014 Joint Declaration on Cyprus

The two leaders had their first meeting today under the auspices of the UN Secretary General’s Good Offices mission. The meeting was held in a friendly and cordial atmosphere and the two leaders have agreed to the following:

1. The status quo is unacceptable and its prolongation will have negative consequences for the Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. The leaders affirmed that a settlement would have a positive impact on the entire region, while first and foremost benefiting Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots, respecting democratic principles, human rights and fundamental freedoms, as well as each other’s distinct identity and integrity and ensuring their common future in a united Cyprus within the European Union.

2. The leaders expressed their determination to resume structured negotiations in a results-oriented manner. All unresolved core issues will be on the table, and will be discussed interdependently. The leaders will aim to reach a settlement as soon as possible, and hold separate simultaneous referenda thereafter.

3. The settlement will be based on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council Resolutions and the High Level Agreements. The united Cyprus, as a member of the United Nations and of the European Union, shall have a single international legal personality and a single sovereignty, which is defined as the sovereignty which is enjoyed by all member States of the United Nations under the UN Charter and which emanates equally from Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. There will be a single united Cyprus citizenship, regulated by federal law. All citizens of the united Cyprus shall also be citizens of either the Greek-Cypriot constituent state or the Turkish-Cypriot constituent state. This status shall be internal and shall complement, and not substitute in any way, the united Cyprus citizenship.
The powers of the federal government, and like matters that are clearly incidental to its specified powers, will be assigned by the constitution. The Federal constitution will also provide for the residual powers to be exercised by the constituent states. The constituent states will exercise fully and irrevocably all their powers, free from encroachment by the federal government. The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws, within the constituent states’ area of competences, and the constituent states’ laws will not encroach upon the federal laws within the federal government’s competences. Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.

4. The united Cyprus federation shall result from the settlement following the settlement’s approval by separate simultaneous referenda. The Federal constitution shall prescribe that the united Cyprus federation shall be composed of two constituent states of equal status. The bi-zonal, bi-communal nature of the federation and the principles upon which the EU is founded will be safeguarded and respected throughout the island. The Federal constitution shall be the supreme law of the land and will be binding on all the federation’s authorities and on the constituent states. Union in whole or in part with any other country or any form of partition or secession or any other unilateral change to the state of affairs will be prohibited.

5. The negotiations are based on the principle that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.

6. The appointed representatives are fully empowered to discuss any issue at any time and should enjoy parallel access to all stakeholders and interested parties in the process, as needed. The leaders of the two communities will meet as often as needed. They retain the ultimate decision making power. Only an agreement freely reached by the leaders may be put to separate simultaneous referenda. Any kind of arbitration is excluded.

7. The sides will seek to create a positive atmosphere to ensure the talks succeed. They commit to avoiding blame games or other negative public comments on the negotiations. They also commit to efforts to implement confidence building measures that will provide a dynamic impetus to the prospect for a united Cyprus.

11 February 2014
Declaration

now then which bits are you having difficulty with?
na sou da ghrafo ellinigi.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:11 pm

this bit is my favourate

3. The settlement will be based on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council Resolutions and the High Level Agreements. The united Cyprus, as a member of the United Nations and of the European Union, shall have a single international legal personality and a single sovereignty, which is defined as the sovereignty which is enjoyed by all member States of the United Nations under the UN Charter and which emanates equally from Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. There will be a single united Cyprus citizenship, regulated by federal law. All citizens of the united Cyprus shall also be citizens of either the Greek-Cypriot constituent state or the Turkish-Cypriot constituent state. This status shall be internal and shall complement, and not substitute in any way, the united Cyprus citizenship.
The powers of the federal government, and like matters that are clearly incidental to its specified powers, will be assigned by the constitution. The Federal constitution will also provide for the residual powers to be exercised by the constituent states. The constituent states will exercise fully and irrevocably all their powers, free from encroachment by the federal government. The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws, within the constituent states’ area of competences, and the constituent states’ laws will not encroach upon the federal laws within the federal government’s competences. Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby B25 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:34 pm

Lordo wrote:this bit is my favourate

3. The settlement will be based on a bi-communal, bi-zonal federation with political equality, as set out in the relevant Security Council Resolutions and the High Level Agreements. The united Cyprus, as a member of the United Nations and of the European Union, shall have a single international legal personality and a single sovereignty, which is defined as the sovereignty which is enjoyed by all member States of the United Nations under the UN Charter and which emanates equally from Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots. There will be a single united Cyprus citizenship, regulated by federal law. All citizens of the united Cyprus shall also be citizens of either the Greek-Cypriot constituent state or the Turkish-Cypriot constituent state. This status shall be internal and shall complement, and not substitute in any way, the united Cyprus citizenship.
The powers of the federal government, and like matters that are clearly incidental to its specified powers, will be assigned by the constitution. The Federal constitution will also provide for the residual powers to be exercised by the constituent states. The constituent states will exercise fully and irrevocably all their powers, free from encroachment by the federal government. The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws, within the constituent states’ area of competences, and the constituent states’ laws will not encroach upon the federal laws within the federal government’s competences. Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.


Is this AFTER you have returned 20% of the land mass that you stole or you just expect to keep it??
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:07 am

na na read it again.
political equality
The federal laws will not encroach upon constituent state laws
Any dispute in respect thereof will be adjudicated finally by the Federal Supreme Court. Neither side may claim authority or jurisdiction over the other.

its a nice sentiment this political equality lark ain it?
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:11 am

here is a very interesting article about akinci. which bits do you disagree with?

https://cyprus-mail.com/old/2017/06/11/honest-plain-speaking-need-look-akinci/

By Loucas Charalambous

WHATEVER the image anyone has of the Turkish Cypriot leader Mustafa Akinci, I believe he has the gift of communicating and explaining his political thoughts in a very effective way that reveals a modern, astute politician.

His discourse is characterised by simplicity, pragmatism and clarity. Irrespective of whether you agree or disagree with him, nobody can doubt this clarity of thought. He is not inclined to say more than is necessary, he does not put a positive spin on things, he does not resort to slogans, and he does not contradict himself. To put it simply, his words have meaning.

There is no comparison with President Anastasiades in this respect. When our president speaks, you never know whether you believe him, whether you understand what he is saying or what he really wants. You can never be sure about anything he says, he does or promises. You can only listen to him, stay quiet and wait for the next time when he will change his story.

I particularly liked Akinci’s take on the reconvening of the Geneva conference. He said: “Geneva will show the black and white, the point at which we say we will be confronted by reality … Everything will be settled in this month ahead. The real story is that in Geneva we will have to reach a result on all chapters. At this point you must not see Geneva as an interim stage. It is a conference for a settlement. The time of the negotiations is over because negotiations have been going on for 50 years. If there can be no solution we will have to explain this to our communities. There is no longer an issue of another extension (to the Cyprus problem talks).”

I think through these simple words, Akinci has given the gist of the matter. I cannot believe there is anyone who would not agree that 50 years of negotiations are enough. This saga has taken on an irrational, probably ridiculous, dimension. After 50 years of talks and negotiations it is truly absurd for this procedure to carry on. And even more absurd is to talk about “asphyxiating time-frames”.

Over the last two years our president has repeated on almost a daily basis the following: “We have covered a lot of ground, there are convergences on many issues but we have a long road ahead.” But for God’s sake, when will we reach the end of this road? What else do the two sides still have to say? There is of course an answer to the question: they have nothing more to say, but they are just repeating the same things over and over. The motive is crystal clear – the perpetuation of the problem perpetuates their political careers.

In these 50 years whatever had to be said was said. It is now time for the words, the accusations, the games and slogans to end. We have had enough of big words and declarations of pseudo-patriotism. Now, as Akinci correctly points out, is the time for our leaders to face the realities. It is the time for decisions. Will they dare take the decisions that are necessary to end this saga? Will they dare look at these realities and decide that it is time to turn over a new page? That the time has come for us to wake up one morning without the Cyprus problem?

Personally, I do not think they will dare. At least on our side I have huge doubts. I do not believe that Anastasiades is a leader who has the guts to take the necessary decisions and show the courage to tell people the truth – that for 50 years their leaders were taking them for a ride, telling them fairy-tales, uttering slogans and selling them patriotism on which they could build their political careers. And that now, at long last, we need to face reality and “see the black and the white”, just as Akinci said.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Lordo » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:28 am

here is a snippet you may be refering to pyro regarding akinci's demands. if you believe that these are ankara's demands rather than akinci's you need a rerious examination of your logic if i may say so. almost as bad as maximoboullouimu

Cyprus: Reunification Proving Elusive

Four months into 2019, unification talks intended to end the division of Cyprus after 55 years as a politically separated nation and 45 years as a physically divided country have remained suspended since July 2017.

Attempts by the United Nations to find common ground between the two Cypriot communities to resume the negotiations have not been successful. The talks have fallen victim to the realities of five decades of separation and both sides’ inability to make the necessary concessions to reach a final settlement. As a result, the long-soughtbizonal, bicommunal, federal solution for the island has remained elusive and may no longer be attainable.
Cyprus negotiations typically exhibit periodic levels of optimism, quickly tempered by the political reality that difficult times between Greek and Turkish Cypriots always lay ahead. In June 2018, in an attempt to jump-start the talks, U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres appointed Jane Holl Luteas his newadviser for Cyprus. Her mission was to consult with the two Cypriot leaders, Nicos Anastasiades and Mustafa Akinci, and the three guarantor parties (Greece, Turkey, and Great Britain) to determine if sufficient conditions existed to resume U.N.-hosted negotiations and, if so, to prepare a comprehensive “terms of reference” document by the end of 2018.

This document was supposed to include a version of a 2017 “framework” proposed by Guterres, previous “convergences” both sides had reportedly reached on many issues, and a proposed road map for how the negotiations would proceed. Lute conducted her first consultations in September 2018 and a second round in October. Although the talks reportedly were “productive,” they did not result in an agreement to resume the talks and Lute announced she would have to return to the island in early 2019, reaffirming the difficulty many thought she would encounter in trying to reach agreement on the provisions of the “terms of reference.” Lute’s initial return in January 2019 was short and inconclusive.
Subsequently, Lute returned to meet with Anastasiades and Akinci on April 7. What Lute apparently found was that both sides were seemingly farther apart. Aside from the long-standing disagreement on security guarantees, a big sticking point was Akinci’s insistence that the Turkish Cypriots have political equality, demanding that on all issues taken up at any new federal level, a positive Turkish Cypriot vote would be necessary. Anastasiades expressed a willingness to discuss Akinci’s proposal for some issues but rejected the demand claiming, it would give the Turkish Cypriots an absolute veto over all policy issues, potentially resulting in gridlock.

At the same time, Anastasiades resurrected an old proposal that the new government be a cross between a presidential system, in which the president would be a Greek Cypriot, and a parliamentary system in which a prime minister would rotate between the two communities. Akinci rejected this proposal, claiming it reinforced his view that the Greek Cypriots will always see the Turkish Cypriots as a minority and not a coequal partner.

Lute’s fourth attempt failed to achieve an agreement between the two Cypriot leaders on how to restart the talks and suggested that negotiations were likely to remain suspended indefinitely.The United States historically has held an “honest broker” approach to achieving ajust, equitable, and lasting settlement of the Cyprus issue. However, some observers have seen recent actions within Congress and the Administration in support of Cyprus’s unfettered energy development in the Eastern Mediterranean and lifting of restrictions on arms sales to Cyprus as an admission by the United States that an equitable solution has become more difficult. These policy directions also suggest that U.S. interests in the Eastern Mediterranean have moved on to security and energy concerns for which closer relations with the Republic of Cyprus have become a higher priority.This report provides an overview of the negotiations’ history and a description of some of the issues involved in those talks.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby Mustiejodu » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:17 pm

Like I said before on a separate topic that Mustafa Akinci is very similar to Jeromy Corbyn the leader of the opposition and a socialist like Akinci. They are both very honest men and care about equality of people. True and decent politicians but amongst fake politicians like BORIS and Anastiadis sorry if I got the Roc Leaders name wrong but he comes across disingenuous just like Boris with false promises and lies. If The whole of Cyprus was led by Akinci Cyprus would be truely a better place for all to live in. I say all this and I am not a socialist actually the opposite but I can see a honest man when I see one.
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Re: latest round of talks

Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:30 pm

...with the attention he is receiving from his comments on Syria, and with the elections coming in April, we will hear more from Akinci.

He has an excellent position to take Cyprus, Turkey, and the region in general to another level of politics, if he dares to denounce "Turkishness" (that it is no different to "Greekness") by recognising that the electorate he serves is not "Turkish", but Turkish.

...he just has to stand beside the Flag of Cyprus, (to confound Anastasiades) to win the support of all Cypriots, to give Hope to Turks not "Turks";
has he the courage?
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