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it seems democracy is dead

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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:23 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-facebook-cambridge-analytica-factbox/factbox-who-is-cambridge-analytica-and-what-did-it-do-idUSKBN1GW07F

they stole millions of people personal data without their permission, analysed their fears and targetted them by playing on their fears to vote in a particular way. you may well say that has been going on a long time but you are wrong. in the past political parties could use your data without your permission.

secondly they actually perverted democracy so much that they managed to get young people actually not to vote by starting a movement to encourage people not to vote and targetted the opponents of the party that hired them.

this is no ordinary situation. you can claim that we have been having wars since the begining of time but using nuclear weapons is not just another form of war.

they claim they deleted the data. anybody who believes that is just plain stupid.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:56 am

here is an elected government in brazil. there are a thousand fires buring in the amazon and the government atitude to the help offered is beyond belief.

Amazon fires: Brazil to reject G7 offer of $22m aid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-49479470
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Kikapu » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:42 am

Sotos wrote:Trump got 2% votes less than Clinton. He was one of the 4 presidents in the history of USA that was elected without winning the popular vote. (another one being George W. Bush)

One of the main problems with democracy in the USA is that this is allowed to occasionally happen. Majority Rule is a fundamental principle of democracy.


Majority rule is exercised in the US’s presidential elections, only not with the popular vote, but electoral vote. In the UK they have a similar issues where the Prime Minister is not voted by popular vote, but instead by the political party members who has the most seats in the parliament. I do not have an issue with the electoral vote system in the US per se. My only objection in the electoral voting system is, that a majority popular vote in each state wins ALL the electoral votes for that state rather than being divided on percentage bases to reflect the popular votes of the residents of that particular state. Under the present system, if the presidential candidate wins California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Ohio and couple more large states, he/she is very close to the magic number of reaching the 270 electoral votes needed to win. All the candidate needs to do is win by a simple majority in the 10+ largest states and walk all over the other 40 states. Fortunately, it has never come to that, but theatrically it is possible.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:50 pm

the system was generated hundreds of years ago becasue of necessity. we no longer need that system, we are perfectly capable of having a hundreds of millions of votes and counting them even if it does take a little while.
we have the same system all over the world. we seem to be stuck on a system where people could not read and write and hance all they had to do is put an ex on a pice of paper.

what is wong with selecting a representative but also selecting the policies properly explained rather than desguised. the favourate phrase tories use is they will balance the books, what they mean is they will cut benefits for the poor including milk snatcher mrs thatcher.

like i said democracy has been dead for some time but this cambridge analytica fiasco has finally buried any pretence for democracy. unfortunately the cat is out of the bag, and cannot be put back in no matter how hard they try. interent was always going to be a force for good but it always had the risk of being manipulated by evel and low and behold as politicans have taken no action we now see the final result.

how dificult could it be to prevent tech firms from harvesting our data especially though others without our permission.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby cyprusgrump » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:34 pm

Lordo wrote:here is an elected government in brazil. there are a thousand fires buring in the amazon and the government atitude to the help offered is beyond belief.

Amazon fires: Brazil to reject G7 offer of $22m aid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-49479470



And you believe it all because you read it in The Guardian and watched it on the BBC... :roll:

But it turns out that all the 'news' about the 'terrible' fires is utter shyte... :wink:
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:59 pm

cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:here is an elected government in brazil. there are a thousand fires buring in the amazon and the government atitude to the help offered is beyond belief.

Amazon fires: Brazil to reject G7 offer of $22m aid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-49479470



And you believe it all because you read it in The Guardian and watched it on the BBC... :roll:

But it turns out that all the 'news' about the 'terrible' fires is utter shyte... :wink:


lest see now, the information came from a director ca
they stole personalised data
they weaponised it
they acted vilence and other activities and presented it to be news
and then used it to influnce the asshole like you

now which bit is it you do not understand.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Paphitis » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:44 am

Sotos wrote:Trump got 2% votes less than Clinton. He was one of the 4 presidents in the history of USA that was elected without winning the popular vote. (another one being George W. Bush)

One of the main problems with democracy in the USA is that this is allowed to occasionally happen. Majority Rule is a fundamental principle of democracy.


The US has the College Voting system which which allocates college votes to each State in the Union in such a way that the populous states on the East and West Coast can't drown out the smaller less populous states.

If it was based on population, New York, Illinois, Florida, and California would have the biggest say to the detriment of the lesser States like Maine and Hawaii.

Federations like the USA have such a system and you better get use to it if Cyprus becomes one too.

Australia has the same system. You don't have to attract the most votes to win the election, you just have to win the most seats. In additions, a state like Tasmania with a population of 500,000 has 12 Senators, as does the bigger states like New South Wales with a population of 8.5 million which also has 12 Senators.

So Tasmania has a say in the upper house and can't be smothered out.

Smothering regions out is not democracy, and if they are smothered out they get neglected with funding.

So, Trump conducted a very clever campaign and focused heavily on regional areas, whilst Clinton was so cocky she only focused on the major population centers like New York and LA which vote Democrat anyway and neglected the real America and paid the price for it.

Everyone thought she would win but Trump kept plucking away at his base and focused on the Bible belt, the interior and in the marginal states and they voted for him and he got the college votes.
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