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it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:54 pm

very interesting documentary about cambridge analitica and how they influenced brexit win and trum win to as well as countless other elections.

netflix - the great hack. is a must watch.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/20/the-great-hack-cambridge-analytica-scandal-facebook-netflix
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby cyprusgrump » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:27 am

Lordo wrote:very interesting documentary about cambridge analitica and how they influenced brexit win and trum win to as well as countless other elections.

netflix - the great hack. is a must watch.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/20/the-great-hack-cambridge-analytica-scandal-facebook-netflix


It is amazing how Obama was Lauded for his use of 'Social Media' yet when the other side do it (Trump Brexit) it is a scandal and the results should be overturned... :roll:

Sadly, it seems the movie only looks at one side of the story...

IMDB Reviewer wrote:I'm a strong privacy proponent and even more so that any citizen should be in full control of his own data at all times. I have watched countless of documentaries about data privacy: Terms and Conditions May Apply, A Good American, Citizenfour, Nothing to Hide, etc.

Unfortunately, this documentary is out there to point fingers at a "one size fits all" culprit, assuming all gullible voters are getting their news from social networks only. This is a very sad hypothesis that is maintained all through the 2 hours.

It started OK with the build up around the data privacy issue on social networks, but quickly evolves with the introduction of two ex-Cambridge Analytica (CA) employees the documentarists like to call "Whistleblowers". These two knew very well that what they were doing at CA was toxic and unethical, pushed it, got paid for it and are now trying to milk a dead cow one last time.

Christopher Wylie was key in revealing the inner-outs at CA. But what isn't mentioned in the Doc is that he's also one key resource who pitched the idea of aggressive data mining, first in 2009 to the Liberal party of Canada (who refused because too privacy-intrusive), then to CA in 2013-2014 (See CBC news article - Source #11 on his Wikipedia Webpage.) This person profited extensively from this, and now that CA is down, he plays the good guy by pretending to be a whistleblower. In the Doc, he goes as far as making the poor comparison that what happened in 2016 with Trumps/Brexit was cheating, and just like the Olympics, cheaters should lose their medal. Well, what about him? Will he pay back what he earned buy building this privacy invasive tool? (Probably not.)

Then comes Brittany Kaiser, ex-Director at CA who clearly lacks a moral compass and only thrive on her ego and pride herself as being a "whistleblower" when her world has finally crumbled. She worked on Obama campaign but switched side at CA to work on Brexit and Trump campaign because this job paid (her own comment btw).

None of them are whistleblowers: They are opportunist who profited to the maximum of their position at CA until the scandal exploded. They are key elements that led to my data privacy exploitation and yours as well. They are no Edward Snowden who quit a well paid (200k/yr) job to denounce the NSA. Far from it.

There's a 3rd whistleblower (Paul-Olivier Dehaye), but the documentary makes very few reference to him, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Paul Hilder, the Political Technologist, who, in Thailand, tries to convince Mrs Kaiser that using targeted ads and data to "manipulate" voters on the fence to vote for one party or another is unethical and wrong. Political parties has been doing this for years, but now it's outrageous, apparently. Businesses are doing it too. There's mention of Obama using social media "wisely" during his 2012 campaign. But when the other side does it, it becomes a scandal?

I expected better from this documentary but my wife and I were left disappointed. Yes, the whole privacy invasion is disgusting, but it's the government's job to tackle it with appropriate laws. And so far, we don't see a lot of efforts to do so, no matter the party in place.


DECLARATION: I haven't watched it yet but I have it here. However, I will watch it with a much more balanced view than Lordo I suspect... :wink:
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Londonrake » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:20 am

And nary a mention about the torrent of blatant lies the most powerful people in politics, the Civil Service, big business, media, culture, education......... poured out in the Remain cause during the referendum campaign. Like it didn’t happen. :?

Still, it makes a change from the old NHS bus chestnut. :wink:
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:33 am

cyprusgrump wrote:
Lordo wrote:very interesting documentary about cambridge analitica and how they influenced brexit win and trum win to as well as countless other elections.

netflix - the great hack. is a must watch.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/20/the-great-hack-cambridge-analytica-scandal-facebook-netflix


It is amazing how Obama was Lauded for his use of 'Social Media' yet when the other side do it (Trump Brexit) it is a scandal and the results should be overturned... :roll:

Sadly, it seems the movie only looks at one side of the story...

IMDB Reviewer wrote:I'm a strong privacy proponent and even more so that any citizen should be in full control of his own data at all times. I have watched countless of documentaries about data privacy: Terms and Conditions May Apply, A Good American, Citizenfour, Nothing to Hide, etc.

Unfortunately, this documentary is out there to point fingers at a "one size fits all" culprit, assuming all gullible voters are getting their news from social networks only. This is a very sad hypothesis that is maintained all through the 2 hours.

It started OK with the build up around the data privacy issue on social networks, but quickly evolves with the introduction of two ex-Cambridge Analytica (CA) employees the documentarists like to call "Whistleblowers". These two knew very well that what they were doing at CA was toxic and unethical, pushed it, got paid for it and are now trying to milk a dead cow one last time.

Christopher Wylie was key in revealing the inner-outs at CA. But what isn't mentioned in the Doc is that he's also one key resource who pitched the idea of aggressive data mining, first in 2009 to the Liberal party of Canada (who refused because too privacy-intrusive), then to CA in 2013-2014 (See CBC news article - Source #11 on his Wikipedia Webpage.) This person profited extensively from this, and now that CA is down, he plays the good guy by pretending to be a whistleblower. In the Doc, he goes as far as making the poor comparison that what happened in 2016 with Trumps/Brexit was cheating, and just like the Olympics, cheaters should lose their medal. Well, what about him? Will he pay back what he earned buy building this privacy invasive tool? (Probably not.)

Then comes Brittany Kaiser, ex-Director at CA who clearly lacks a moral compass and only thrive on her ego and pride herself as being a "whistleblower" when her world has finally crumbled. She worked on Obama campaign but switched side at CA to work on Brexit and Trump campaign because this job paid (her own comment btw).

None of them are whistleblowers: They are opportunist who profited to the maximum of their position at CA until the scandal exploded. They are key elements that led to my data privacy exploitation and yours as well. They are no Edward Snowden who quit a well paid (200k/yr) job to denounce the NSA. Far from it.

There's a 3rd whistleblower (Paul-Olivier Dehaye), but the documentary makes very few reference to him, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Paul Hilder, the Political Technologist, who, in Thailand, tries to convince Mrs Kaiser that using targeted ads and data to "manipulate" voters on the fence to vote for one party or another is unethical and wrong. Political parties has been doing this for years, but now it's outrageous, apparently. Businesses are doing it too. There's mention of Obama using social media "wisely" during his 2012 campaign. But when the other side does it, it becomes a scandal?

I expected better from this documentary but my wife and I were left disappointed. Yes, the whole privacy invasion is disgusting, but it's the government's job to tackle it with appropriate laws. And so far, we don't see a lot of efforts to do so, no matter the party in place.


DECLARATION: I haven't watched it yet but I have it here. However, I will watch it with a much more balanced view than Lordo I suspect... :wink:

watch it first, you will see that this is nothing like what has heapened in the past. i will be interested to see your view of what it says.

the core of the matter is not really the campaign, but how they harvest information about us and then target their message to the ones they think they can influnce which is perfectly legitemate but the worrying aspect is that i as an individual have no right to see what information they have on me.


here is another incident how false news were created.

https://www.channel4.com/news/revealed-how-leave-eu-faked-migrant-footage
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 am

Democracy is NOT dead.

It is actually thriving and the establishment and the Left (Democrats in America, Labor in UK and all their cohorts around the world) are trying to kill it off.

Who would have thought that it is now the Right, or the US Republican equivalents who are fighting for free speech, family and traditional conservative values and our way of life as well as democracy as a whole.

This while the other side have abandoned the working classes, and the battlers and stand for every debauchery you can think off! I will give you an example of the kind of debauchery I am talking about. In Queensland it is now legal to abort a baby 1 hour before it is born. A mother is now able to abort a baby because the don't like the sex. In other words, if its a girl, and they want a boy, it is ok to abort.

This is where society is headed under the Corbynov's and their likes.

As for democracy, we have never had so much access to information like we do have today. All that is required is a little discipline. We can all be journalists today and build a platform. Big tech and the LEFT are trying to shut this down because their narrative is to control the masses and maintain the status quo we they dictate everything and we just listed and consume their nonsense!

Wake up people. BREXIT is going to happen as well.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:36 am

Paphitis wrote:Democracy is NOT dead.

It is actually thriving and the establishment and the Left (Democrats in America, Labor in UK and all their cohorts around the world) are trying to kill it off.

Who would have thought that it is now the Right, or the US Republican equivalents who are fighting for free speech, family and traditional conservative values and our way of life as well as democracy as a whole.

This while the other side have abandoned the working classes, and the battlers and stand for every debauchery you can think off! I will give you an example of the kind of debauchery I am talking about. In Queensland it is now legal to abort a baby 1 hour before it is born. A mother is now able to abort a baby because the don't like the sex. In other words, if its a girl, and they want a boy, it is ok to abort.

This is where society is headed under the Corbynov's and their likes.

As for democracy, we have never had so much access to information like we do have today. All that is required is a little discipline. We can all be journalists today and build a platform. Big tech and the LEFT are trying to shut this down because their narrative is to control the masses and maintain the status quo we they dictate everything and we just listed and consume their nonsense!

Wake up people. BREXIT is going to happen as well.

i wonder why was alexander nix got fired from being ceo at cambridge analitica after helping brexit and trump campaign then?
after all he helped both win? and yet he was first fired as ceo and then the company itself declared for bankrupcy.
i wonder why?
what could have gone wrong.
let me think for a bit.
you really are clueless about anything.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:51 am

Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Democracy is NOT dead.

It is actually thriving and the establishment and the Left (Democrats in America, Labor in UK and all their cohorts around the world) are trying to kill it off.

Who would have thought that it is now the Right, or the US Republican equivalents who are fighting for free speech, family and traditional conservative values and our way of life as well as democracy as a whole.

This while the other side have abandoned the working classes, and the battlers and stand for every debauchery you can think off! I will give you an example of the kind of debauchery I am talking about. In Queensland it is now legal to abort a baby 1 hour before it is born. A mother is now able to abort a baby because the don't like the sex. In other words, if its a girl, and they want a boy, it is ok to abort.

This is where society is headed under the Corbynov's and their likes.

As for democracy, we have never had so much access to information like we do have today. All that is required is a little discipline. We can all be journalists today and build a platform. Big tech and the LEFT are trying to shut this down because their narrative is to control the masses and maintain the status quo we they dictate everything and we just listed and consume their nonsense!

Wake up people. BREXIT is going to happen as well.

i wonder why was alexander nix got fired from being ceo at cambridge analitica after helping brexit and trump campaign then?
after all he helped both win? and yet he was first fired as ceo and then the company itself declared for bankrupcy.
i wonder why?
what could have gone wrong.
let me think for a bit.
you really are clueless about anything.


This guy ison your side.

He is part of the establishment machine who supports the status quo and turning people into sheeple like you.

They want to control people and have profiles on all individuals to bombard their social media in order to manipulate their vote. They are not on the BREXIT, ScoMo or Trump side qhich from now on will be referred to as The Holy Trilogy.

The Holy Trilogy is anti establishment, pro free speech, pro democracy, and against such debauchery as 1000 genders, and aborting babies based on their sex.

You are a Guardian Reader and are a big supporter of debauchery. It's the only news source you trust, making you a little mindless drone of the elites and establishment.

The Guardian, which supports things like Killing babies up to 1 hour before they are born as if that living human in the womb is nothing and has no rights to life at all. And letting parents abort based on the sex of the baby.

And you are going to get on your high horse and lecture me about Trump and BREXIT? Asiktir! :lol:
Last edited by Paphitis on Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Lordo » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:08 am

Paphitis wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Democracy is NOT dead.

It is actually thriving and the establishment and the Left (Democrats in America, Labor in UK and all their cohorts around the world) are trying to kill it off.

Who would have thought that it is now the Right, or the US Republican equivalents who are fighting for free speech, family and traditional conservative values and our way of life as well as democracy as a whole.

This while the other side have abandoned the working classes, and the battlers and stand for every debauchery you can think off! I will give you an example of the kind of debauchery I am talking about. In Queensland it is now legal to abort a baby 1 hour before it is born. A mother is now able to abort a baby because the don't like the sex. In other words, if its a girl, and they want a boy, it is ok to abort.

This is where society is headed under the Corbynov's and their likes.

As for democracy, we have never had so much access to information like we do have today. All that is required is a little discipline. We can all be journalists today and build a platform. Big tech and the LEFT are trying to shut this down because their narrative is to control the masses and maintain the status quo we they dictate everything and we just listed and consume their nonsense!

Wake up people. BREXIT is going to happen as well.

i wonder why was alexander nix got fired from being ceo at cambridge analitica after helping brexit and trump campaign then?
after all he helped both win? and yet he was first fired as ceo and then the company itself declared for bankrupcy.
i wonder why?
what could have gone wrong.
let me think for a bit.
you really are clueless about anything.


This guy ison your side.

He is part of the establishment machine who supports the status quo and turning people into sheeple like you.

They want to control people and have profiles on all individuals to bombard their social media in order to manipulate their vote. They are not on the BREXIT, ScoMo or Trump side qhich from now on will be referred to as The Holy Trilogy.

The Holy Trilogy is anti establishment, pro free speech, pro democracy, and against such debauchery as 1000 genders, and aborting babies based on their sex.

so what you are saying is cambridge analitica did not have a role in trump election and brexit referendum. your stupidy knows no bounds.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Paphitis » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:11 am

Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Democracy is NOT dead.

It is actually thriving and the establishment and the Left (Democrats in America, Labor in UK and all their cohorts around the world) are trying to kill it off.

Who would have thought that it is now the Right, or the US Republican equivalents who are fighting for free speech, family and traditional conservative values and our way of life as well as democracy as a whole.

This while the other side have abandoned the working classes, and the battlers and stand for every debauchery you can think off! I will give you an example of the kind of debauchery I am talking about. In Queensland it is now legal to abort a baby 1 hour before it is born. A mother is now able to abort a baby because the don't like the sex. In other words, if its a girl, and they want a boy, it is ok to abort.

This is where society is headed under the Corbynov's and their likes.

As for democracy, we have never had so much access to information like we do have today. All that is required is a little discipline. We can all be journalists today and build a platform. Big tech and the LEFT are trying to shut this down because their narrative is to control the masses and maintain the status quo we they dictate everything and we just listed and consume their nonsense!

Wake up people. BREXIT is going to happen as well.

i wonder why was alexander nix got fired from being ceo at cambridge analitica after helping brexit and trump campaign then?
after all he helped both win? and yet he was first fired as ceo and then the company itself declared for bankrupcy.
i wonder why?
what could have gone wrong.
let me think for a bit.
you really are clueless about anything.


This guy ison your side.

He is part of the establishment machine who supports the status quo and turning people into sheeple like you.

They want to control people and have profiles on all individuals to bombard their social media in order to manipulate their vote. They are not on the BREXIT, ScoMo or Trump side qhich from now on will be referred to as The Holy Trilogy.

The Holy Trilogy is anti establishment, pro free speech, pro democracy, and against such debauchery as 1000 genders, and aborting babies based on their sex.

so what you are saying is cambridge analitica did not have a role in trump election and brexit referendum. your stupidy knows no bounds.


No it didn't. 9.% of the media was against Trump because Trump was the non political anti establishment wild card candidate.

The thing that got Trump elected were individuals like me who think out of the box, and not people like you who read The Guardian.

You are a Guardian Reader and are a big supporter of debauchery. It's the only news source you trust, making you a little mindless drone of the elites and establishment.

The Guardian, which supports things like Killing babies up to 1 hour before they are born as if that living human in the womb is nothing and has no rights to life at all. And letting parents abort based on the sex of the baby.

And you are going to get on your high horse and lecture me about Trump and BREXIT? Asiktir!


The only major outlet that was supportive of Trump was FOX News. They are unashamedly conservative and do not hide the fact they are pro Trump. I like to watch FOX News sometimes to get the perspective from the Father of The Holy Trilogy - Trump, who gave us ScoMo, the Son, and BOJO, the Holy Ghost! :D

The Guardian however tries to portray itself as centrist and objective and they are nothing like that at all. They are manipulative FAKE NEWS who support debauchery.
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Re: it seems democracy is dead

Postby Sotos » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:33 am

Trump got 2% votes less than Clinton. He was one of the 4 presidents in the history of USA that was elected without winning the popular vote. (another one being George W. Bush)

One of the main problems with democracy in the USA is that this is allowed to occasionally happen. Majority Rule is a fundamental principle of democracy.
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