Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

Erolz, your questions are answered by this part:

must submit a written declaration that they do not recognise the breakaway administration, hold an office there or hold any property belonging to a Greek Cypriot.

Somebody could still lie, but those who are found to be lying will have the citizenship removed.

I am not sure if this is the best way to deal with the issue, however something needs to be done, and probably it will be done when the negotiations will permanently fail. It can't be that the Turks drill in our EEZ, the TCs are opening Varosha, and we do nothing to retaliate.

The last few years have proven what I was saying all along. That "confident building measures" are at best useless for our side, because the Cyprus problem has very little to do with confidence and everything to do with interests. It is time for our government to recognize this and adjust its policies accordingly.

[erolz66]

Erolz, your questions are answered by this part:

must submit a written declaration that they do not recognise the breakaway administration, hold an office there or hold any property belonging to a Greek Cypriot.

Somebody could still lie, but those who are found to be lying will have the citizenship removed.

I am still unsure what 'recognise' actually means at an individual level. hold office , property etc - they are clearly defined conditions. recognise is not imo.

[Maximus]

Do you recognize the "TRNC" Erolz?

it is a simple question, do your best to give a simple and straight forward answer.

if you cant, get as close to Yes or No as possible.....because anything more than that is too long and will probably include a healthy dose of bollox.

[erolz66]

Do I recognise it as a legitimate independent sovereign state ? No I do not. Do I recognise it exists and has de facto control over the area ? Yes I do.

Would that protect my right to Cypriot citizenship in your eyes ?

[Maximus]

I have not disclosed whether I agree with this or not.

I have simply started a thread about it.

Now to answer your question,

Yes.

but there are hypocrites. Hypocrites that want the "TRNC" and take the benefits form the RoC without any obligations.

And as Sotos says, its easy to lie.

This is what this bill is about. tackling those hypocrites. How to do that effectively is something else.

Because as you say, the RoC doesnt have control over the area so what can the RoC do about it?

This charade has been going on for 50 years and the "TRNC" is acting as a pariah for the invader and occupying country.

[erolz66]

Having done my best to answer your question on your terms I will now exercise my right to talk about this kind of questions in my terms. This is not really about you and the specific question but about what commonly occurs in my experience.

Do I accept someone's right to demand of me that I answer a question on their terms, using only the tribes they have defined and placed everyone in ? No I do not for such is as far as I am concerned a demand that I deny my own actual identity for their benefit. I do not chose to define the world in terms of tribes of 'GC and 'TC' and 'GC interest' and 'TC interest'. The tribes I chose to see and place myself and other Cypriots in are pan Cypriot. For one example I see Cypriot tribes of 'extreme non Cypriot nationalists' and 'not that', each that has both GC and TC in.

None of this is a declaration that the way I see things is 'right' and any other way is 'wrong'. It is just a deceleration that I resist being forced to declare my identity in terms and tribes defined by others that do not and can not give an accurate picture of who I am as an individual. I demand the right to be able to express who I am in any terms, using any 'tribes' that I believe are necessary to do that.

To give another example I see Cypriot tribes that are 'hypocrites' that are pan Cypriot. That contain TC as you highlight but that also contains GC who believe that the RoC should have all the rights and benefits of being internationally recognised as the sole legitimate government of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots but also believe that if and when it discriminates against TC for no other reason than they are TC, that is justified because the TC asked for it by their own behaviour'

[Maximus]

My intention wasnt to offend you Erolz,

Just to get to the point.

Of course you can answer on your terms;

But now its getting confusing and possibly divisive......

Are you now saying that the RoC shouldnt be the sole legitimate government of Cyprus and Cypriots?

[erolz66]

My intention wasnt to offend you Erolz,

Just to get to the point.

Of course you can answer on your terms;

But now its getting confusing and possibly divisive......

Are you now saying that the RoC shouldnt be the sole legitimate government of Cyprus and Cypriots?

No that is not what I am trying to say.

I will give an example. There has been systematic 'obstructions' placed on TC like myself that seek their right to a RoC passport, who happen to have only one Cypriot parent but the other is non Cypriot. In my case British. GC in the same position are not facing this same obstruction. This is well known and has been widely reported. It has been discussed here. Significant numbers of GC, in the CM 'below the line' comments on articles about this, and here have, rather than say 'this is not acceptable and should be stopped' have instead sought to justify such discrimination on the basis that TC have brought such discrimination on themselves, that they 'support the TRNC and thus should be discriminated against' and similar memes. To me this is just as much 'hypocritical' as those TC you highlight as hypocrites. Wanting the benefits of being recognised as a sole legitimate government means acting in ways that are compatible with that sole legitimacy. It means applying the laws and constitution fairly and equally. Wanting those benefits and also wanting to be able to behave in discriminatory ways, that are counter to the RoC laws and constitution is just as hypocritical in my book as the TC you highlight as hypocritical. Thus I see two camps of 'hypocritical Cypriots' and 'not hypocritical Cypriots' that are pan Cypriot. Both 'tribes' have some GC in them and some TC in them. It feels like your narrative is there is a camp of 'hypocritical Cypriots' that only has TC in it and 'not hypocritical Cypriots' that is predominantly GC with perhaps a few exceptional and numerically insignificant TC in it.

[Maximus]

I dont know about that,

What I do know though is that the "TRNC" and the politics of the TC's (general) are acting as a pariah against the RoC and the majority of Cypriots respectively.

I wasnt around pre 1974, but history tells me that that is how it was pre 1960 too. just replace "TRNC" and TC with Ottoman empire and Ottomans.

[Lordo]

I dont know about that,

What I do know though is that the "TRNC" and the politics of the TC's (general) are acting as a pariah against the RoC and the majority of Cypriots respectively.

I wasnt around pre 1974, but history tells me that that is how it was pre 1960 too. just replace "TRNC" and TC with Ottoman empire and Ottomans.

boy you need to learn some true history and then speak. you sound real prize ignoramous when you say things like that. as if your history has some relevance to the true history of cyprus.