Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Very interesting thread GR. What I think it does show is how people's thoughts have changed as to the meaning of Hellenism.
Until you posted this I had not thought of hellenism as being "pagan" instead like Paphites thought of it as a way of life based on the thoughts of the the Great philosophers and teachers of ancient Greece and had not considered "mythology" as being part of the concept of Hellenism. Your post brings some thought provoking ideas which are new to me and having briefly viewed the pages you indicated can see where you are coming from.

I have downloaded the file to read at a later date, it may take a while as it looks quite a hard read.

Hope this makes sense

Thanks for the post

Makes perfect sense Riccardo… I just hope you’re familiar with the + and - buttons on PDFs so as to enlarge the font/page; if that’s what is making it hard to read.

Hey I'm not that computer illiterate.
I meant a hard read as in "hard" on the brain as opposed to the second hand "artistic" magazines I usually peruse. Lol

Maybe I should’ve pulled out all the relevant sections, cleaned them up of all brackets and numbers and other inserted irrelevant things, to produce a neat relevant flow of his writings on the subject… but I’m also conscious of taking things out of context.

[Paphitis]

So they made him a Saint then?

Religion never ceases to amazes me.

The world over is grateful for the contribution Hellenism has made to the global civilization - medicine, science, maths, physics, philosophy, music and poetry.

For this man to call it a heresy speaks volumes about his zealotry. He tried to destroy a culture and failed miserable and in the end it is religion that is dieing whilst the Hellenism continues to go on from generation to generation.

Well it is written that Satan will have his way till the end times…

Tell me this, what has religion ever offered to science?

And why should religion offer anything to science?

It makes as much sense as asking what plumbing has ever offered to cooking or vice versa!

You avoided my question. What language was the book written in?

I have no idea, why don’t you tell us for all its relevance to this thread.

In fact, in what languages was the bible written in?

Why don’t you research and give us a write-up... for all its relevance to this thread.

Between all the FCOMs and Ops Manuals I have to stay up to date with, I don't have time for Bible Study I'm afraid. Plus, it isn't that important to me specifically.

To be fair, I would rather read more about Hellenic Philosophy and The Classics than the Bible. Not saying the Bible isn't worth a read, because I believe it probably is worth it and quite fascinating.

From my limited understanding, I believe the Bible was first written in Greek and Hebrew or Aramaic (Can't remember). Which definitely indicates to me that the Hellenic Language and culture was very dominant or was a language of influence in the area at the time.

So the Hellenic Culture was very much alive and well even among the very first followers of this belief system.

Now the heresy allegations come because the Hellenic Culture had at the time their own pagan belief system (The 12 Greek Gods) much like Ancient Rome had theirs and Ancient Egypt had theirs as well. To early Christianity, they were all deemed heretical.

It is also true that early Christianity practiced Genocide by burning Ancient Greek and Roman texts, libraries and temples. Behavior that is no different than ISIS today. The only defence for early Christianity is that at least they did their terrorism nearly 2000 years ago when there was still slavery rather than in the 21st century like ISIS.

So I'm afraid, early Christianity is something a lot more worse than being Heretic. At the time Ancient Greece and Rome, Hellenic and Roman culture contributed so much to Medicine, Science, Philosophy and their contributions are just as valid today as they ever were - Astronomy, Medicine, Geometry, Math, Algebra, Philosophy, Language, Music, Poetry, the list can just go on and on.

Even millions of words of the English Dictionary trace their origins to Greek.

[Paphitis]

Very interesting thread GR. What I think it does show is how people's thoughts have changed as to the meaning of Hellenism.
Until you posted this I had not thought of hellenism as being "pagan" instead like Paphites thought of it as a way of life based on the thoughts of the the Great philosophers and teachers of ancient Greece and had not considered "mythology" as being part of the concept of Hellenism. Your post brings some thought provoking ideas which are new to me and having briefly viewed the pages you indicated can see where you are coming from.

I have downloaded the file to read at a later date, it may take a while as it looks quite a hard read.

Hope this makes sense

Thanks for the post

Hellenic Culture is the whole package.

It's our culture in Cyprus too, as we basically practice every facet of it.

Greek Philosophy, Science, Mythology (*still taught in schools) plays an important to our culture, as well as our language, music, food, customs.

Orthodoxy today as adapted to coexist with it. In the old days, just like every other civilization like Rome, Egypt, Vikings and so on, we had a belief structure to a system of Gods. In Hellenism, these Gods were the 12 Greek Gods on Mount Olympus, led by Zeus and Athena. This beliefe system was also practiced in Cyprus at the time. And it probably still existed till even the 4th and 5th centuries AD.

To Christianity it was this part that was heretical, much like they considered the Ancient Roman, Viking and Egyptian Gods and any other belief systems as heretical.

Today, Orthodoxy even considers Catholicism and the Church of England and even Protestantism as heretical. If you are not Orthodox, you are a heretic. That's the bottom line.

Even if you are Muslim you are a heretic. I give you an example. My son does martial arts. I remember a priest telling me to withdraw him because Martial Arts are a heresy because according to him, it also involves meditation and bowing your head to Buddha or something.

[repulsewarrior]

...God,



...what science says.

[Paphitis]

What worries me more is the fact that this person was made a Saint.

Nothing saintly about a person who degrades other people's as heretics in my view. Even if you were to translate the words of Jesus Christ, it is difficult to reconcile such attitudes with his words.

he never portrayed any hatred to others, was also patient and respected them.

This saint, or the words you attribute to him, do not seem to reconcile well with the teachings of Jesus.

There is no way in the world Jesus would have supported the destruction of the Hellenic Culture, temples and books.

[Get Real!]

From my limited understanding, I believe the Bible was first written in Greek and Hebrew or Aramaic (Can't remember)...

There is no straightforward answer Paphitis, because the bible is comprised of many books written by many different authors spanning some 1,500 years of development, so a number of languages were used depending on the period/book/author.

[Get Real!]

What worries me more is the fact that this person was made a Saint.

Nothing saintly about a person who degrades other people's as heretics in my view. Even if you were to translate the words of Jesus Christ, it is difficult to reconcile such attitudes with his words.

he never portrayed any hatred to others, was also patient and respected them.

This saint, or the words you attribute to him, do not seem to reconcile well with the teachings of Jesus.

There is no way in the world Jesus would have supported the destruction of the Hellenic Culture, temples and books.

There is nothing devious about writing a book to warn Christians of the heresies that are out there.

Nowhere does he suggest for Christians to rise up and destroy anybody/anything.

[repulsewarrior]

...but it is said that all the Apostles spoke Greek, Koine, middle Greek was the language of anyone who traveled, who was involved in some kind of Trade, (just like English is today, e.g.), at that time.

Jesus spoke Aramaic, but there is little to debate that he would not have spoken Greek to crowds (for this reason); Hebrew and Latin would also have been known by him.

...indeed, religion has divided "Christians" since before such a religion was founded; recall the dispute between Peter and Paul, and what the Christ said about that, Himself.

Big difference, the words of Christ, and what was done in His name.

[Get Real!]

...but it is said that all the Apostles spoke Greek, Koine, middle Greek was the language of anyone who traveled, who was involved in some kind of Trade, (just like English is today, e.g.), at that time.

Jesus spoke Aramaic, but there is little to debate that he would not have spoken Greek to crowds (for this reason); Hebrew and Latin would also have been known by him.

Yes, Jesus and the 12 apostles spoke 6 different languages, which is why the Israeli ministry of tourism employed them at the front counter and right next to the telephone exchange.

[repulsewarrior]

What are you trying to say GR? What's the joke, is it a joke; i don't get it.

Do you doubt that such a conclusion is true? Greek, like English today, was a language used by most people living in an urban context; that the Bible is written in Koine (and other languages)?

And that the further someone traveled from their home, the more the likelihood that there would be other languages to speak, (as well as Latin and Greek).

What is it you are ridiculing, the facts? How is it that my contribution merits this attention? (Too lazy to google it?) What is your point?

...in your mind, i'm guessing, Christ being Jewish spoke Jewish; is that it? Or maybe, being Jewish he doesn't have the capacity to learn Greek, let alone a lot of languages: is that it?

...that people who relied on their intelligence had no need to speak many languages, let alone Greek; it would not be likely, only "Greeks" spoke Greek? Is that it?

...as i see it, this discussion is about a Greek World in conflict with itself; what does your disruptive behaviour (toward me) serve the readers GR, and the topic?