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When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Londonrake » Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:16 pm

Thanks. It's Horlicks time here and i'll read that tomorrow.

Just to add that I didn't suggest you were a fan of dictatorships. Although, in my many years of foruming I can say that It's never failed to surprise me just how many people are. The irony of a contradiction posed by their activity and what they're defending (or in some cases actually promoting) seems to entirely escape them. Good night - in Swiss :D
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:02 am

Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


What has RH done to you. Did he come over tie you to a chair and steal your log in?

:lol:
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:13 am

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


Well, we can all ponder who the real culprits were in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, no?

Turkey tried very hard to get Obama to bomb Syria shitless because of the use of chemical weapons as Obama promised he would if Assad did use such weapon, but Obama did not bomb Syria after the use of CWs because he was never convinced that Assad did it, but more likely Turkey did it (false flag) to let US do Erdogan’s dirty work. Obama/Biden and Erdogan has never saw anything eye to eye again. Erdogan is throwing temper tantrums for the past month because Biden won’t return his calls for a chit-chat like he had done with shameless Trump whenever he wished to since Trump left the YPG to be mercilessly slaughtered at the hands of the Turkish military. What other reasons Obama would have not to bomb Syria if Assad did in fact us CWs?


Ponder? We know who the culprits are.

The Assad Forces used Sarin Gas in rebel held suburbs of Damascus and also in other areas killing thousands of men, women and children.

So the air strikes by Trump were fully warranted as a back lash to this war crime and from memory it was the very reason exactly why there were air strikes. They were days after or just a mere week or so after Assad used Sarin on Ghouta.

But the latest air strikes on Syria are quite interesting. I’m not against them as they are targeting Hezbollah forces.

But there is a very clear point of difference here between Biden and Trump, Democrats and GOP.

Trump and GOP would not have done this latest round of air strikes, and as we know, Biden and Democrats are a different matter altogether. Far more trigger happy and far more eager to start something with Syria and far more eager to start a war and settle scores with Syria. Perhaps even embark on a regime change adventure which is what I believe they are working towards. And also far more likely to start a war with Iran.

Which is why I started this thread. The official narrative paints Trump in a very bad light, and even to the point t of labelling him fascistic. When he got elected, Clinton tried to convince everyone he was a warmonger.

History proves this assessment 100% wrong, the fact of the matter is, it’s the Democrats who are more fascistic, anti liberal and warmongering.

History points to Trump as only 1 of a tiny few who never started a war with anyone or even tried to stir shit and instability with other countries. He is the arch anti polemist, and was far more eager to address home issues in America and address the economy, employment, law and order and border security.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:17 am

Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


Well, we can all ponder who the real culprits were in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, no?

Turkey tried very hard to get Obama to bomb Syria shitless because of the use of chemical weapons as Obama promised he would if Assad did use such weapon, but Obama did not bomb Syria after the use of CWs because he was never convinced that Assad did it, but more likely Turkey did it (false flag) to let US do Erdogan’s dirty work. Obama/Biden and Erdogan has never saw anything eye to eye again. Erdogan is throwing temper tantrums for the past month because Biden won’t return his calls for a chit-chat like he had done with shameless Trump whenever he wished to since Trump left the YPG to be mercilessly slaughtered at the hands of the Turkish military. What other reasons Obama would have not to bomb Syria if Assad did in fact us CWs?


Turkey doesn’t have CWs and it certainly doesn’t have Sarin.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:23 am

Londonrake wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


Well, we can all ponder who the real culprits were in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, no?

Turkey tried very hard to get Obama to bomb Syria shitless because of the use of chemical weapons as Obama promised he would if Assad did use such weapon, but Obama did not bomb Syria after the use of CWs because he was never convinced that Assad did it, but more likely Turkey did it (false flag) to let US do Erdogan’s dirty work. Obama/Biden and Erdogan has never saw anything eye to eye again. Erdogan is throwing temper tantrums for the past month because Biden won’t return his calls for a chit-chat like he had done with shameless Trump whenever he wished to since Trump left the YPG to be mercilessly slaughtered at the hands of the Turkish military. What other reasons Obama would have not to bomb Syria if Assad did in fact us CWs?


Ohh dear. I was having a bit of a rib poking session with Paphitis there. Serves me right! :lol:

It’s been a long time but my clearest recollection all the way back then was of the usual pitter-patter of useful idiot feet, as they rushed in to the defence of Assad. As predictable as the sunrise. I don’t TBH recall any mention at all then of a potential Turkish role. Not a single one, by any side. :? Nor since, until you just conjoured it up. At least you don’t knee-jerk “Israe-hell!” though. I know Sarin was used, a pretty nasty substance and that well over 1000 people, as usual mostly civilians, died in agony.

Earlier I think, Obama, his advisers sat head in hands, had ad-lib briefed that the use of such weapons would precipitate a military response. It didn’t though and instead a deal was struck with Russia to remove 100s of tons of Sarin from Syria. Something the useful idiots had earlier adamantly insisted didn’t exist. Followed, as usual, by silence from them on the matter (being wrong was unthinkable you see).

That Obama made a threat he didn’t carry out doesn’t surprise me at all. I’m sure to your good self he ranks among the greatest. To a distant, dispassionate observer like me though he came across as the great ditherer. His lack of resolution probably saved US military lives and possible involvement in a campaign with an uncertain direction but it seemed to me it marked his being a man of great, Churchillian, rhetoric that ultimately could be effectively ignored by less sympathetic world leaders. His credibility was shredded and I suspect that a great many paid a heavy price for that. Not least in places like Crimea. Give Barack his credit though. He did significantly ramp up drone ops.

Sorry, as much as I’m sure we agree on Erdogan (To me, another fucking dictator. Just what the world needs) I don’t believe he actually comes into this tragedy at all. At the time Syria’s considerable store of chemical weapons were distributed regionally. Effectively under the command of local military setups. One of them decided to unleash Sarin on “the enemy”. What happened afterwards was a victory for Russia. Both in the disinformation and diplomatic spheres. Like Erdo, Trump and the Kurds didn’t feature.

This must be nearly a decade back now. And - I can’t really be assed to look into it once again. So, it’s all from my fading (but now vaccinated!) memory. :D :wink:


That is correct. But my recollection was that Obama was going to launch massive air strikes. It wasn’t just words.

But they were communicating with the Russians in the background.

And yeh, initially Assad said he had no Sarin Gas. Then the Russians made a back room deal to remove the Sarin Gas stockpiles which they didn’t have in return for the US not intervening militarily.

Then they went ahead and used it again thinking the Americans won’t do anything and Trump ordered the air strikes.

I could be wrong, but according to my own personal assessment and recollection, I took the Obama threat as being serious as the Russians appeared to take it seriously and were trying to prevent it from happen.

I remember the US Ambassador to the UN. She was a bit of a bright spark that one.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Kikapu » Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:24 am

Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


Well, we can all ponder who the real culprits were in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, no?

Turkey tried very hard to get Obama to bomb Syria shitless because of the use of chemical weapons as Obama promised he would if Assad did use such weapon, but Obama did not bomb Syria after the use of CWs because he was never convinced that Assad did it, but more likely Turkey did it (false flag) to let US do Erdogan’s dirty work. Obama/Biden and Erdogan has never saw anything eye to eye again. Erdogan is throwing temper tantrums for the past month because Biden won’t return his calls for a chit-chat like he had done with shameless Trump whenever he wished to since Trump left the YPG to be mercilessly slaughtered at the hands of the Turkish military. What other reasons Obama would have not to bomb Syria if Assad did in fact us CWs?


Ponder? We know who the culprits are.
.

Why don’t you first read this report before making such claims. :wink:


The Red Line and the Rat Line

Seymour M. Hersh on Obama, Erdoğan and the Syrian rebels.
5776 words

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v36/n08 ... e-rat-line
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:34 pm

...yes, he dares to push redlines, Erdogan does; what was the downing of a Russian aircraft but a jab at NATO, for their support (in Syria).

Obama is not blameless, having picked sides: Erdogan on the other hand "made" war. (talking about comparisons to Hitler)

That was Obama's error, choosing one "side" over the other, losing sight of the real adversary, which was (and is) the general terror these extremists were (and are) creating for the rest of the general public. Not the mediator, in it, (and risking direct conflict with Russia) ending his capacity as a capacity builder for the Syrian People, a mistake i suppose which haunts him to this day.

...after Libya, (and Iraq2), this should have been a lesson learned. What war in the Middle East have the same interlocutors committed to where they could withdraw with dignity having made things, for the People, far better?

Biden, this time, i think did well. Not the show that Trump put on under similar circumstances, indeed. But, Americans were hurt, beyond threatened; with the most minimal force a message of equal force was sent.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:30 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...yes, he dares to push redlines, Erdogan does; what was the downing of a Russian aircraft but a jab at NATO, for their support (in Syria).

Obama is not blameless, having picked sides: Erdogan on the other hand "made" war. (talking about comparisons to Hitler)

That was Obama's error, choosing one "side" over the other, losing sight of the real adversary, which was (and is) the general terror these extremists were (and are) creating for the rest of the general public. Not the mediator, in it, (and risking direct conflict with Russia) ending his capacity as a capacity builder for the Syrian People, a mistake i suppose which haunts him to this day.

...after Libya, (and Iraq2), this should have been a lesson learned. What war in the Middle East have the same interlocutors committed to where they could withdraw with dignity having made things, for the People, far better?

Biden, this time, i think did well. Not the show that Trump put on under similar circumstances, indeed. But, Americans were hurt, beyond threatened; with the most minimal force a message of equal force was sent.


Assad was the terrorist who caused it all and he even attacked his own people.

If Assad was worth his lunch of salt, there would have been no insurrection. But he suppressed the Sunnis fir decades and reaped what he sowed.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Paphitis » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:34 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Londonrake wrote:No, no, no! You've got it all wrong Paphitis.

At the time it was proven beyond doubt (from Russian sources) that the rebels used chemical weapons on themselves. In fact, they did it several times. It was all false-flag stuff though. Murdering their own in order to make the - actually much loved by his people - democrat Bashir Assad look bad in the world's eyes.

Do try to keep up.

:D :wink:


Well, we can all ponder who the real culprits were in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, no?

Turkey tried very hard to get Obama to bomb Syria shitless because of the use of chemical weapons as Obama promised he would if Assad did use such weapon, but Obama did not bomb Syria after the use of CWs because he was never convinced that Assad did it, but more likely Turkey did it (false flag) to let US do Erdogan’s dirty work. Obama/Biden and Erdogan has never saw anything eye to eye again. Erdogan is throwing temper tantrums for the past month because Biden won’t return his calls for a chit-chat like he had done with shameless Trump whenever he wished to since Trump left the YPG to be mercilessly slaughtered at the hands of the Turkish military. What other reasons Obama would have not to bomb Syria if Assad did in fact us CWs?


Ponder? We know who the culprits are.
.

Why don’t you first read this report before making such claims. :wink:


The Red Line and the Rat Line

Seymour M. Hersh on Obama, Erdoğan and the Syrian rebels.
5776 words

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v36/n08 ... e-rat-line


Sorry Kikapu. If you search fir such stuff, you are bound to find what you want to find.

But Turkey does not have Sarin, or the means to deliver it to a besieged enclave in Damascus where the residents were eating grass to sustain themselves as not even food or water could get in. UN at the time we’re worried about starvation of civilians.

Secondly, not even a terrorist would use the stuff in a suburb and kill their own family and friends in a suburb with only a few streets.

It’s a ludicrous proposition.

I’m all for a Turkey/Erdogan bash, but I can’t blame Turkey or Erdogan fir something they didn’t do.
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Re: When can we use Hitler as a point of comparison

Postby Kikapu » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:54 pm

Here is another timely report on Turkey and friends with chemical weapons in Syria. :shock:

Elusive figure of Syrian war dies with secrets in Turkey

Fehim Tastekin
Mar 2, 2021

Heysem Topalca, a fugitive who allegedly played a key role in the Turkish intelligence operations in Syria before vanishing into thin air in 2015, has died at the age of 54, leaving several unanswered questions behind.

Topalca, notoriously known as “Hytham Qassap'' or “Hytham the butcher,” and two other passengers in his car were killed in a traffic accident in the central Anatolian province of Konya on Feb 10. Topalca’s name was embroiled in various controversies from his alleged involvement in Ankara's weapons transfers to armed Syrian groups to accusations that he played a role in two separate terror attacks inside Turkey and that he helped radical jihadi groups to supply chemical agents. In 2015, a Turkish court sentenced him to 12 years in jail for terrorism-related charges. He has supposedly been “wanted” by the Turkish authorities since then. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... -dies.html
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